Linux on an intel HP Envy 13.3

[fox]

I recently bought an HP Envy 13.3 (Intel i5 version) that was on sale at Best Buy. There is a lot to like about this laptop, but it seems to have multiple problems if you want to use Linux on it. I say Linux because I tested out the laptop with several different distros (Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora, Mx, Zorin, Manjaro), including three versions of Ubuntu, and all had the same problems. All ran OK from their live distros, and the one that I installed alongside Windows (Ubuntu 22.04 LTS), installed without any problems. The three problems were: (1) no sound from the internal speakers (headphones work fine), touchscreen doesn't work as a touchscreen, and it doesn't wake up from sleep in a usable way whether you put it to sleep from the menubar or just close the lid. To explain the latter, it does wake up from sleep but the display flickers on and off and you can't get it to stay on. The only way to recover is to force a shutdown and reboot. I like this laptop so much that I decided I could live with 1 and 2 (there was a hint on the internet that a fix for 1 would eventually make it into a new kernel), but not with 3.

I did search the internet for fixes, and postings about Linux on an HP Envy were very sparse. I don't expect that there are fixes available for these problems (with the possible exception of sound from internal speakers), so this post may be more for information of Linux users thinking about buying this otherwise very nice laptop. But if you do find something helpful, please post. Note that I don't have much more time before I have to return this laptop for a refund, and unfortunately, I am planning to do that barring a fix for at least the sleep/suspend.

This is also a warning to people thinking of buying an HP computer to run Linux. HP tech support is extremely unhelpful. In several of the posts I found, they would simply indicate that they don't support Linux; end of story. It gives me extra appreciation for Dell, which provides Linux-specific drivers.

[ssfc72]

Thanks Fox, for the review about the HP Envy notebook and it's problems with running a Linux Distro.
Yes, I would return the thing and look for another notebook, if I had bought one.
Did you do a Google search for the latest new notebooks that users have reported, to run well with Linux?

[fox]

No I haven't done a Google search for that in particular, but I did come across a Ubuntu Certified Hardware site that lists computers known to be compatible with it. Interesting to note that there are HP laptops on it, but not Envy or Spectre models; the only ones that would interest me. I seem to recall that you had an HP laptop at one time that was compatible with whatever version of Linux you were running. Out of curiosity, which one was it?

One other point. I really like this Envy laptop. It was reasonably priced, has good specs, is fast for anything I do on it, and all the features work much better on it than they do on my 2017 Dell xps 13 2 in 1; at least in Windows. Ubuntu also works well on it except for the three aforementioned problems. I know that the Dell xps 13's are fully compatible with Linux; the alternative I'm considering if I return this computer is to buy either a one year old (9310) or the new basic clamshell model (9315); either with touchscreen. However, from its specs and the reviews I've read, this HP Envy is actually a better (but for Linux compatibility). I therefore want a reason to keep it. The break point was the inability to wake it when put to sleep or suspended (are they the same?), especially by closing the lid (which is instinctual). I'm wondering if there is a way to close the lid and open it later with Ubuntu working, even if it isn't put to sleep. Or would that be dangerous because of heat buildup?

One interesting thing to add. I made a Ubuntu 22.10 VM in Windows with VMware Player. Running it is slower than running Ubuntu bare metal, but it does work and the functions that didn't work on bare metal do work here. Except for suspend within Ubuntu, which froze the VM. However, closing Player suspends the VM, which is what you want. It gives an alternative, and most of Ubuntu runs bare metal, but I don't know if I can live with that.

[ssfc72]

Yes, I still have and use my HP 360 11 inch notebook computer. I seem to recall it had a minor issue under Linux, maybe sleep or hibernation, not really sure what it was. I rarely use the computer but I seem to recall it worked well booting Linux.
The boot menu shows Ubuntu but that does not seem to boot, only Win 10 boots.
I just tried a recent version of EasyOS, booting from a usb pendrive and that works very well, off of the pendrive.  Wifi was automatically running and the response of the Distro is very quick, to run the internet browser.

No I haven't done a Google search for that in particular, but I did come across a Ubuntu Certified Hardware site that lists computers known to be compatible with it. Interesting to note that there are HP laptops on it, but not Envy or Spectre models; the only ones that would interest me. I seem to recall that you had an HP laptop at one time that was compatible with whatever version of Linux you were running. Out of curiosity, which one was it?

One other point. I really like this Envy laptop. It was reasonably priced, has good specs, is fast for anything I do on it, and all the features work much better on it than they do on my 2017 Dell xps 13 2 in 1; at least in Windows. Ubuntu also works well on it except for the three aforementioned problems. I know that the Dell xps 13's are fully compatible with Linux; the alternative I'm considering if I return this computer is to buy either a one year old (9310) or the new basic clamshell model (9315); either with touchscreen. However, from its specs and the reviews I've read, this HP Envy is actually a better (but for Linux compatibility). I therefore want a reason to keep it. The break point was the inability to wake it when put to sleep or suspended (are they the same?), especially by closing the lid (which is instinctual). I'm wondering if there is a way to close the lid and open it later with Ubuntu working, even if it isn't put to sleep. Or would that be dangerous because of heat buildup?

One interesting thing to add. I made a Ubuntu 22.10 VM in Windows with VMware Player. Running it is slower than running Ubuntu bare metal, but it does work and the functions that didn't work on bare metal do work here. Except for suspend within Ubuntu, which froze the VM. However, closing Player suspends the VM, which is what you want. It gives an alternative, and most of Ubuntu runs bare metal, but I don't know if I can live with that.

[fox]

Well your situation would parallel mine, assuming your HP 360 isn't a touchscreen, except your sound works from the internal speakers. Ironically, I had issues with my boot menu on the Dell xps - Windows wouldn't boot from the entry. I never was able to figure out why. So to boot Windows on that laptop, I had to go into the boot menu and select Windows.

I have a kludgy solution to the sleep/suspend problem on the HP. I can set the power settings to blank the screen, but turn off automatic suspend (on the Ubuntu side of course). It even works when I close the lid, thanks to a change I made in the /etc/systemd/logind.conf file (HandleLidSwitch=lock). Only potential problem (someone comment please) - if the display is off but the computer isn't asleep, would this cause a heating problem if the lid is closed?

[buster]

" I made a Ubuntu 22.10 VM in Windows with VMware Player."

Do my eyes deceive me?

I'm surprised some enterprising Linux users haven't found a work around for this. Many people with savvy in the community.

And is there a function you can adjust that puts the distro to sleep after so many minutes automatically if unused? If it doesn't wake up it's not much use though.

And how long does it take to boot and open a distro with the computer's hardware? If it's a great computer for your awful choice of Ubuntu, it might be worthwhile considering turning it off when finished working on it.

But then half my house involves work-arounds. I'm accustomed to a lack of perfection. Our family motto: Good enough.

And I can't use a touch screen because I get peanut butter all over it.

[fox]

I hear ya', Buster, about the peanut butter.  You can also smear your screen if you touch it after putting on hand creme. I never had a touch screen on a computer until I bought the Dell 2 in 1; that was at the end of 2018. It is convenient sometimes when it's hard to get the mouse pointer in a precise position, but I can live without using it. The lack of sound from the speakers can be inconvenient too, but it isn't a deal breaker for a few reasons. First, if I want sound, I can either plug in a speaker or headphones, or even use a bluetooth speaker. Alternatively, I can hear it from the Ubuntu VM, or I can hear it from Windows. And ultimately, I'm pretty certain the smart folk maintaining Debian or Ubuntu or Mint will have a fix for this. The not waking up from sleep was more of a problem, but I now have a workaround for this, too.

So the decision boils down to keeping a computer with a few flaws on the Linux side, or buying a new or last year's Dell xps 13 that will work perfectly with Ubuntu, but is in my mind inferior in a few ways to this HP Envy. (The Dell being slower, poorer battery life, isn't a convertible x360, and has fewer external ports than the HP. Also the Dell is pricier, and the HP actually comes with a good stylus.) The third option would be to return the HP and stick with my current Dell until something better comes out. But my current Dell has 1/3 of its battery capacity gone, a minor screen crack, and it requires some extra effort to boot into Windows because something is wrong with its Grub bootloader. (I was never able to figure that one out and I eventually gave up.) I haven't decided yet, but right now I'm inclined to keep the HP. I'm interested to hear what other PLUGers think.

And if any of you come across a potential fix for any of the three problems, please post!

[ssfc72]

The HP 360 does have a touch screen but I have never used it that way, so I would not have noticed any problem using it under a Linux Distro.

The reason I purchased my HP 360 back in around 2017 was to have a notebook with an IPS screen. An IPS screen doesn't fade out when you look at it at a slight angle from direct line of sight.
I got really tired of having to constantly adjust the tilt of the screen on my older Acer notebook, when I was watching a video playing.

Well your situation would parallel mine, assuming your HP 360 isn't a touchscreen, except your sound works from the internal speakers. Ironically, I had issues with my boot menu on the Dell xps - Windows wouldn't boot from the entry. I never was able to figure out why. So to boot Windows on that laptop, I had to go into the boot menu and select Windows.

I have a kludgy solution to the sleep/suspend problem on the HP. I can set the power settings to blank the screen, but turn off automatic suspend (on the Ubuntu side of course). It even works when I close the lid, thanks to a change I made in the /etc/systemd/logind.conf file (HandleLidSwitch=lock). Only potential problem (someone comment please) - if the display is off but the computer isn't asleep, would this cause a heating problem if the lid is closed?I have a kludgy solution to the sleep/suspended problem. I can blank the screen, but turn off automatic suspend (on the Ubuntu side of course). It even works when I close the lid, thanks to a change I made in the /etc/systemd/logind.conf file (HandleLidSwitch=lock).

The only potential problem (someone comment please) - if the display is off but the computer isn't asleep, would this cause a heating problem if the lid is closed?

[fox]

I discovered one other thing working and one not. Bluetooth is working, so that is alternate way of getting sound. Unfortunately the videocam is not working - no video in Cheese or Zoom. That's unfortunate and the workaround is to Zoom on the Windows side. So now, the two things not working for which there is no workaround on the Linux side are the touchscreen and the video cam.

With regard to sound, I think I know what the problem is, but not the solution. My audio controller has two kernel modules: snd_hda_intel, and snd_sof_pci_intel_tgl. However, only the second is loading and I don't have the option in sound preferences to change them because the former doesn't show as an option. Incidentally, every linux distro I booted into on this laptop loads the same snd_sof_pci_intel_tgl sound driver.

I suspect that there is a solution, but so far I haven't been able to find it.

[buster]

Just as an experiment, I would try in your situation using a virtual, pumping up both the ram, and the HD space, as much as possible, and trying it full screen for a bit.

I suspect it will be maybe a touch slow, though everything will work.

One advantage of this setup is you can get into Windows immediately by minimizing the virtual. And drag and drop between the systems is helpful, as well as copy/paste for web sites or like anything. And when you're finished in windows click the VMware icon and it's instantaneously on.

Sleep in both systems should work, but I don't know. But I think you found this to be true.

Or, he said dramatically, you could have a dual boot and a virtual. And I'd bet you would be the only person in Peterborough with a complex-hybrid system (Patent Pending). Maybe the only person in Canada. Maybe in the world!!!!!!!!!!!

[fox]

I'm one step ahead of you - already set up a Ubuntu partition and a VM on Windows. The VM is much slower; I think that wouldn't be the case if I was able to use the built-in virtualizer, but you need Win 11 Pro for that. In the VM, sound from my internal speakers works, and so does touch. Sleep/suspend works of course, because VMware Workstation Player is just a program running on Windows. The only thing that I couldn't get working in the VM is the webcam. It doesn't show as an option in the settings.

I installed the VM just to test things like this that weren't working from the Ubuntu bare metal partition. Nice to know that I have it, but hard to imagine why I would actually use it when anything not working in Ubuntu does work in Windows.

I did some more more checking on the current Dell xps 13 standard model (9315); reviews, comparisons with HP and current price. The reviews put the two in a virtual standoff; some things slightly better in one and some slightly better in the other. The xps 13 is now on sale, and with a coupon I can get it similarly configured as the HP for $100 more. (That would be the clamshell version with touch, 16 gb RAM, and a 500 gb SSD instead of the 1 TB that comes with the HP. I don't need all this storage on a laptop and I don't need the 2 in 1 feature as long as I have touch.) I'm now sitting on the fence again. I have another 2+ weeks to decide whether to keep or return the HP.

[buster]

So you have a  a complex-hybrid system (Patent Pending) already!

One feature of the virtual I like, though I agree it does have some disadvantages, is that both systems are always on. With a dualee, the laptop has to be shut down and rebooted  to access the other.

I do sometimes listen to music files on one and work on the other. Mostly if Kubuntu is acquiring an old film slowly on my laptop, I do email or whatever in Windows. My taxes are always done in Windows, so if I remember something I can just jump over to that system

But your requirements are quite different. You want a fast Linux system as a priority. You don't get speeding tickets on a virtual, though my velocity is pretty good.

And be careful. Speed Kills.

[William]

Rule of Thumb:  HP + Linux = Don't

[fox]

Rule of Thumb:  HP + Linux = Don't

William, could you elaborate please? I was totally unaware that there were Linux issues specific to HP. If this is so, then I'm less optimistic that there will be a fix for the sound in the HP Envy. I can live without sound from the internal speakers for awhile, but I would ultimately want a fix for this. This makes me more inclined to return this laptop in favour of another Dell xps. I hate to do it because this is a really nice laptop at a very good price, but Dell does support Linux.

[Jason]

What a bird's nest you walked into! Safe to say that most people would have given up trying to make it work. You must really like this laptop! I appreciate you spending the time to let us know at a level of detail that even I envy!

Anyway, I'll address a couple of questions you had since I can't think of anything else to offer.

The break point was the inability to wake it when put to sleep or suspended (are they the same?), especially by closing the lid (which is instinctual). I'm wondering if there is a way to close the lid and open it later with Ubuntu working, even if it isn't put to sleep. Or would that be dangerous because of heat buildup?

Yes, there are 5 different power setting modes officially known as S0 to S5 (or maybe S4?). A good place to look for adapting this in hardware is looking at the BIOS or more likely, given the modernity of this laptop, UEFI. There may be a power section in it.

Additionally, in Ubuntu and other distros, there should be a choice of what happens when you close the lid. It's perfectly safe to have the lid closed while it's left on. When my desktop wasn't working, I used my Toshiba laptop for about 1 1/2 years with the lid closed and an external monitor, mouse and keyboard. It annoyed me to have the laptop lid open when I wasn't going to use its features. I did shut it down when I went to bed but otherwise, it was on. You should be doing the same, Mr. Environment. Your battery will last longer, too, for when you actually need it unless you're leaving it plugged in anyway. You may also have an option in BIOS/EUFI to choose what happens when you close the lid. It may be under display settings.

It's not quick but if you want the system returned to the state it was, you could try using hibernate mode or hibernate-sleep. Since it's powering down the machine after saving the RAM to disk, it'll take longer to load (maybe slightly longer than a fresh boot), but it's more likely to work. The mixed hibernate-sleep mode probably won't show up in Linux as an option (at least graphically) but hibernate might be. It tends to require a swapfile which you can create after an install if you didn't when you installed it.

Good luck!