Linux on an intel HP Envy 13.3

[fox]

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Additionally, in Ubuntu and other distros, there should be a choice of what happens when you close the lid. It's perfectly safe to have the lid closed while it's left on. When my desktop wasn't working, I used my Toshiba laptop for about 1 1/2 years with the lid closed and an external monitor, mouse and keyboard. It annoyed me to have the laptop lid open when I wasn't going to use its features. I did shut it down when I went to bed but otherwise, it was on. You should be doing the same, Mr. Environment. Your battery will last longer, too, for when you actually need it unless you're leaving it plugged in anyway. You may also have an option in BIOS/EUFI to choose what happens when you close the lid. It may be under display settings.

It's not quick but if you want the system returned to the state it was, you could try using hibernate mode or hibernate-sleep. Since it's powering down the machine after saving the RAM to disk, it'll take longer to load (maybe slightly longer than a fresh boot), but it's more likely to work. The mixed hibernate-sleep mode probably won't show up in Linux as an option (at least graphically) but hibernate might be. It tends to require a swapfile which you can create after an install if you didn't when you installed it.
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Thanks for that, Jason. Since that posting, I already discovered that I have options within Ubuntu as to what to do with the lid closed. I chose to require login when opened, and then tested this out. I tried closing the lid and leaving it for a bit, opening asks for login, and there was no obvious heat buildup, so that seems like a good option if I expect to come to the laptop later in the day. As for leaving it on all the time, that makes no sense to me the way I use it. The laptop is a secondary device to me; I may not use it again for days or even weeks sometimes. So I'm going to continue to shut it off when I have no likelihood of using it again that day.

As I noted in my previous post, I am now concerned about whether I'll get a fix for sound in a reasonable time period. I've tried everything I could find on the internet that I am capable of implementing (i.e. nothing that involves recompiling a kernel). I even tried going to Ubuntu Mainline Kernels site and installing the latest daily build (6.2 beta as I recall), but no joy.

I realize that I would still have access to all of these features on the Windows side, but I am reluctant to use Windows for anything more than I need to, worrying as I don't trust it for malware, data theft, takeover schemes, etc.

With the HP flaws on Linux in mind and the knowledge that I can get a current xps of similar spec to the HP for only $100 more, and that it will have the webcam, sound, touch and sleep working, I have pretty much made the decision to return the HP and buy the Dell. The downsides would be fewer ports (but small dongles to cover the missing ones), smaller SSD (but 500 gb is plenty for me), slightly lower performance and battery life (but still very good on both fronts), and no replaceable SSD. Of those listed, only the soldered-in SSD bothers me; not because I would ever need a larger one, but because if something goes wrong with it, it would probably be very expensive to fix.

Comments?

[Jason]

As for leaving it on all the time, that makes no sense to me the way I use it. The laptop is a secondary device to me; I may not use it again for days or even weeks sometimes. So I'm going to continue to shut it off when I have no likelihood of using it again that day.

To be clear, I wasn't suggesting leaving it on all the time. I was saying the opposite. I thought maybe you were leaving your laptop in suspend mode throughout the day and therefore wagging my finger at you mainly in jest. When I was using the laptop as my main computer, I set it to suspend after an hour and then power down after two in case I forgot to shut it off. I would have powered it down if I didn't plan to use it for the rest of the day but, and I know this will make you sad, would rarely ever happen. Not an outdoor guy.

Pity that you can't get the speaker audio to work but I find laptop speakers usually suck anyway. And they can be atrocious for video conferencing. A lot of laptops put the microphone on the bottom or just close to the fan outtake.

[fox]

Well, thanks for the replies. I made my decision this afternoon. I restored the laptop to factory settings and returned it. Now to decide next move; either:

• hang on to my old laptop and don't buy anything
• buy the Dell xps 13 9315 (current model)
• buy a refurb or open box Dell ops 13 9310 (last year's model)
• buy something else

Two advantages of the older model: the SSD is replaceable and it has a speaker jack. The current model has a soldered SSD and only two ports (thunderbolt 4), but it has dongles for USB 2 and a speaker jack.

[Jason]

If you're looking for advice, I'd go with the older model. You'll get a longer life out of it in case the drive fails. It could be fine but it's really hard to predict. Could happen tomorrow, could happen in 5 years. I'm sure last year's model is fine. Unless If your current model is doing fine, then why get a new one?

[tommolica]

Very interesting discussion going on here Fox. In case you find it useful, I always get most of my stuff from   https://www.infotechcomputers.ca/    If they have anything you like after doing your research. I have asked them to max out ram, and include extra HD, exact same as in it. They also ship out to you. Now most systems seem to have SSD drives.
Cheers and good luck in your search. Tom.

[fox]

Thanks for the reply, tommmolica, and the suggestion. I went onto infotechcomputers website, but they don't carry anything close to what I'm looking. I want a current or late model ultrabook and they don't carry those.

[fox]

If you're looking for advice, I'd go with the older model. You'll get a longer life out of it in case the drive fails. It could be fine but it's really hard to predict. Could happen tomorrow, could happen in 5 years. I'm sure last year's model is fine. Unless your current model is doing fine, then why get a new one?

I think you mean "unless your current model isn't doing fine". I guess that depends on what you mean by "fine". It works, but the battery is down to 2/3 original capacity, the display has a hairline crack (which doesn't affect the function), and the webcam, being at the bottom of the display, is pretty awful. It is 100% functional, so I don't have to replace it but would like to. I tend to agree with you that the older model, with the replaceable SSD, is preferable to the current model. The older model is an xps 13 9310. Dell doesn't carry them and nor do any stores I am aware of, but they can be had on eBay, and Best Buy associated sellers. Problem is I want an FHD touch display, not a battery-eating OLED or high res display. Also, I want the clamshell, not the 2 in 1 model, which reviews indicate has an uncomfortable keyboard. (The 2 in 1 also has the model number 9310.) I look regularly, but haven't been able to find one with these specs that doesn't cost more than the new one (model number 9315). Actually, I today I found a refurb that's potentially suitable. It has an i7 chip (which I don't need), but is low-spec for RAM (8 gb) and SSD (256 gb) vs the new one (16/500) and sells for only $150 less than the new one. I'm still considering it.

[Jason]

Thanks for the correction. I fixed it.

I forgot (I don't know how) that long battery life is essential to you. Chromebooks are really great for that (8 hours seems standard but you can get longer). There are some projects in which you can replace the Chrome OS with Linux. But it's closer to a tablet than a laptop in many ways since versions nowadays support most Android apps. They are often limited in hard drive space and everything is usually soldered on so that's a downside. You can't really upgrade.

The webcam on the bottom of the display is very unusual. I've never seen that before.

8 GB should be plenty of RAM for most things, Windows included. But maybe you run some programs that are heavy? Is the RAM soldered on, too? Regarding the smaller SSD, if you find yourself running out, it's likely due to data files which you can transfer to a portable drive. How much disk space are you using now?

[Jason]

I don't have any experience with how well it works but have you tried this tool for choosing a laptop?

https://www.laptopmag.com/laptop-finder

[fox]

....
The webcam on the bottom of the display is very unusual. I've never seen that before.

8 GB should be plenty of RAM for most things, Windows included. But maybe you run some programs that are heavy? Is the RAM soldered on, too? Regarding the smaller SSD, if you find yourself running out, it's likely due to data files which you can transfer to a portable drive. How much disk space are you using now?

The webcam placement was Dell's response to thinning the bezels. Bottom placement sucks; you get a chin view unless you greatly elevate the laptop.

RAM is not a problem on my present xps. I don't use it for anything heavy. I was just commenting on the difference between the refurb 9310 available at present and the new 9315 I specked out. RAM is soldered so what you get you get. While not important to me, I know from experience that it affects resale value.

My current xps has a 512 gb SSD; it came with that. It's way more than I need, but it would be good to have more than 256. I have three main partitions; Ubuntu 22.04, Windows 11 and Linux Lite (the latter mainly for making changes in Ubuntu that you can't make when it's mounted). The three take up about 300 gb. I can certainly squeeze into a 256 if I had to, but I would rather pay more and get the 512 if I could. In any case, the SSD would be replaceable in the older model, so I wouldn't worry about it so much.

What I'm thinking now is to hold onto my current xps and wait until the new models come out, which is normally in the spring. Dell has received a lot of criticism for the low-res webcam, dearth of ports and soldered SSD. They often respond to criticism from reviewers, so maybe the next version will be better. And if not, the older ones will sell for less than they do now.

[fox]

I don't have any experience with how well it works but have you tried this tool for choosing a laptop?

https://www.laptopmag.com/laptop-finder

Never heard of it, but I checked it out. Unfortunately it doesn't deal with the main issue for me, which is Linux compatibility. Ubuntu does have a website called Certified laptops, which is somewhat helpful in that regard. But it only lists Dell, HP and Lenovo laptops. Even then, I don't know that they have all the compatible ones listed. I have heard that older HP Spectre laptops are Ubuntu-compatible, but no Spectre model is listed. Perhaps to be listed here, everything the laptop has for Windows has to work in Ubuntu. Even on my xps 9365, touch works in Ubuntu, but not many of the gestures do.

[fox]

Well I didn't have to wait long for a deal I couldn't resist on the Dell 9310 (2020 model). Best Buy had one as an open box; touchscreen, core i7, 16 gb RAM, 512 gb SSD. For $100 less than the HP Envy and $200 less than the current model Dell (9315). Full one year warranty. And it's from Best Buy itself, not one of its marketplace sellers, so if I have any problem with it, I can bring it back to the store. The ultimate question is whether it's a better buy than the new one. It might be slightly slower, but it has a replaceable SSD, which gives me some security. It will have much better battery life than my current xps, and some reviewers claim its battery life is better than the newer 9315 even when both have the same FHD touch display. We'll see.

[ssfc72]

Nice! Does the 2020 year model XPS have lots of usb ports?
Thanks for sharing your detailed specs on the current model of XPS. I wouldn't want a solder in SSD either.

[fox]

Nice! Does the 2020 year model XPS have lots of usb ports?
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Actually no. It has two Thunderbolt 4 USB Type C ports. But it also has an audio jack and a micro-SD slot. The new xps models have only the Thunderbolt ports; no audio jack and no micro-SD slot. Dell also gives you a USB C to USB A adapter in the box in the 2020 model. (They give you that and a USB C to audio adapter in the new models.)

Both have soldered on RAM, but that has been the case for awhile. The soldered on SSD is new for Dell and it's only on their cheaper model.

Funny that I'm getting the xps for the same price I paid for the HP Envy, and both from Best Buy. Best Buy doesn't normally carry xps 13 in their stores; the one I'm getting is a real stroke of luck. What I can't understand is they have one more open box of what appears to be the exact same model, but for $800 more than mine cost. Go figure!

[fox]

Unfortunately, my xps 9310 purchase from Best Buy fell through. They only had one, and even though they accepted my order, someone must have gotten there first. Five days later they cancelled my order and offered me a $100 gift certificate for my trouble. Meanwhile, the price of the current model, similarly specked has come down to within $100 of the 9310 open box. I'm considering it again.