How is KDE Neon as a Desktop?

buster · May 11, 2018, 04:40:32 PM

After the disappointment with Neptune and its infamous update destroy mechanism, I looked for a KDE replacement. (In passing we should note that 18.3 is the final Mint KDE release. Clem says it is too unlike the others and requires too much manpower to keep it to their high standards.)

OpenSuse does a good KDE, but it is not to everyone's taste. Neptune will rip your soul out after you come to like it. Maybe Kubuntu is good, but in the past I had problems with it.

So with VMWare as a host, I installed KDE Neon with 2 gig ram, and a 50 gig hard drive. Using Synaptic I added the vmware guest software, including the one for desktop. As well I got qBittorrent, Kpat and Extreme Tuxracer for the usual tests.

#1. I don't recall any problems with the install. Seemed pretty easy.
#2. Discover has worked PERFECTLY for a few days now. (Eat your heart out Neptune users.)
#3. Graphics as excellent as it gets in virtual, except for Linux Lite.
#4. Drag and drop either way between host and guest flawless.
#5. So far quick and responsive.
#6. If you go to themes, you will find two choices. I changed to 'dark' and really liked its appearance. (See included picture.)
#7. I like how it feels under my keyboard and mouse. So far seems a pretty good KDE distro, and is sure to improve.

It has a few minor quirks, which may be my laziness in tracking them down to an error I made, but really nothing at all. So if you wish to experiment with a KDE Wayland this is probably a good one to try. Love to hear feedback

fox · May 11, 2018, 06:10:02 PM

KDE Neon is quite good, but it's cutting edge so there may be stability issues. Myself, I wouldn't use it as a regular distro, but it is neat to try. In my opinion, OpenSUSE is very attractive and well coordinated design-wise. My most recent experience is with OpenSUSE tumbleweed though, and I'm not sure that LEAP has the exact same design elements. Like Neon, I wouldn't recommend tumbleweed as one's regular distro; it's rolling release and a version I installed got borked after an update. I haven't tried Kubuntu, but I have indirectly by installing KDE on top of Ubuntu. I have this on one of my old computers, and I recently updated it to 18.04. I have to say it's quite good, and the only problem I have experienced with it is pretty minor (KDE wallet keeps asking for password), and may not even occur if you use Kubuntu directly. I've had it installed for several months and it runs well. Kubuntu itself has received good reviews.

Jason · May 11, 2018, 11:19:51 PM

I didn't use it for very long but the Neon I had on the laptop ran fine. Didn't have any issues that I remember. I liked the dark theme it came with, too.

I should point out, and you may have meant this, Mike, that Neon should be fairly stable, it's only the desktop that is cutting edge, they even mention this on the website that it's solid and stable. The underlying core is Ubuntu LTS, probably still 16.04 at this stage but I haven't checked.

I thought I was going to go to Kubuntu next after OpenSUSE 42.3 Leap with KDE wasn't really fitting my needs (more because of OpenSUSE issues than the KDE in it).

However, I reconsidered Linux Mint 18.3 KDE after I realized that it will be supported until 2021. Right now, I just want to know with what I know is solid and easy to get up and running with and after using it for a day, it feels just as solid as the other desktop versions of LM. And I'm okay with changing in the next few years to another distro thought it will likely be Debian or Ubuntu-derived since the apps I used have the best support under those bases.

Here's my desktop right now the left-side has those dark bars because it's a smaller secondary display.

fox · May 12, 2018, 07:39:41 AM

I thought Neon was potentially unstable because, although it uses a stable Ubuntu base, they are the first to put up the latest iteration of KDE (as you noted above). If LM 18.3 KDE is supported until 2021, that's the same as Kubuntu. (LTS versions of most Ubuntu variants are only supported for 3 years.)

So you are now using KDE as your regular desktop? I never went that far. I like the design and functionality, and once I played with it, I found that I could change the look and feel to something I like. However, it installs kde apps that I don't like as much as their gtk equivalents. I know you can add the gtk apps and they work under kde, but I don't know whether deleting stuff like amarok (which I never liked) and korganizer also removes parts of the kde desktop that one needs. Nevertheless, I am potentially open to the possibility of switching from gnome to kde. That's why I had openSUSE tumbleweed installed, and I liked it until an update made it inoperable.

Nice desktop, Jason. Neat that you took a snapshot while you were writing your post. But anyone looking at your snapshot now knows a lot about you, as the tabs and folders shown tell viewers what you're interested in. Speaking of which, what are you reading under anti-slavery manuscripts?

Jason · May 12, 2018, 11:40:33 AM

Quote from: fox on May 12, 2018, 07:39:41 AM
I thought Neon was potentially unstable because, although it uses a stable Ubuntu base, they are the first to put up the latest iteration of KDE (as you noted above). If LM 18.3 KDE is supported until 2021, that's the same as Kubuntu. (LTS versions of most Ubuntu variants are only supported for 3 years.)

Yeah, but LM is nicer and I prefer to stay with what I know. I know I could get a later version of core packages with Kubuntu though.

QuoteSo you are now using KDE as your regular desktop? I never went that far. I like the design and functionality, and once I played with it, I found that I could change the look and feel to something I like. However, it installs kde apps that I don't like as much as their gtk equivalents. I know you can add the gtk apps and they work under kde, but I don't know whether deleting stuff like amarok (which I never liked) and korganizer also removes parts of the kde desktop that one needs. Nevertheless, I am potentially open to the possibility of switching from gnome to kde. That's why I had openSUSE tumbleweed installed, and I liked it until an update made it inoperable.

Yep, have been for a few days now. I'm re-learning some stuff and I don't think I like KTorrent all that much. I don't understand what the heck it's doing with magnet links. It doesn't seem to be converting the magnet links to torrents like what happens with transmission or deluge.

Regarding what apps are needed for the KDE desktop, if you try out neon, you will see it comes with hardly anything which means there aren't many apps that are a part of the base KDE desktop. I don't think it will allow you to remove those core apps, like kate, konsole and konqueror, for example. If you try it in synaptic, you will probably see it deselect everything kde, other minimalist package managers probably won't even let you get that far.

QuoteNice desktop, Jason. Neat that you took a snapshot while you were writing your post. But anyone looking at your snapshot now knows a lot about you, as the tabs and folders shown tell viewers what you're interested in. Speaking of which, what are you reading under anti-slavery manuscripts?

I wouldn't say it reveals a lot about me, that I dabble in Java and Python and am interested in history and politics? Not sure how anybody could benefit knowing that. I've mentioned those interests here as well.

The manuscripts was a project I was participating in where you transcribe letters written by abolitionists to each other. Haven't done much of it lately but it is interesting volunteer work. You really get a feel for the culture that existed then in not just what they talk about it but how they talk about it, some of terms they use and so on.

buster · May 12, 2018, 03:18:41 PM

Jason wrote: "I don't think I like KTorrent all that much. I don't understand what the heck it's doing with magnet links. It doesn't seem to be converting the magnet links to torrents like what happens with transmission or deluge."

If you add qBittorrent it wont know either. I've seen this problem while in Ubuntu Mate as well. The solution is to put a shortcut of your torrent software on the desktop and drag and drop the magnet link into the shortcut. HOWEVER, when I used this trick with Ktorrent, I couldn't see anything happening except an open Ktorrent and evidence that it knew what it was supposed to do. I checked in downloads and there was the downloaded TV show, all the way from Australia!

qBittorrent worked with this trick though. And I could see it the same way as you usually can.

I'm in Kubuntu by the way. Very nice! More on it later.

fox · May 12, 2018, 04:12:12 PM

Quote from: buster on May 12, 2018, 03:18:41 PM
....
I'm in Kubuntu by the way. Very nice! More on it later.

If I were to switch to KDE it would be with Kubuntu 18.04, mainly to get fairly recent packages. Buster, please do post on your experience with it; in particular whether you get the annoying constant requests to open KDE wallet. I assume that you're testing it on a virtual machine, but I don't think that should affect the wallet behaviour.

Regarding Jason's earlier comment about continuing with LM because it's what he knows, I'm in a bit of the same dilemma now on my office iMac. I have been using LM 18.3 cinnamon for close to a year on it because it was the only distro that would start up quickly on it without messing with grub parameters or installing the previous Ubuntu LTS and using a proprietary Radeon driver. But with kernel 4.15 in Ubuntu 18.04, I no longer have these problems and it purrs on this computer. Now I have to decide whether to switch or not. Mint cinnamon has been great on this computer and I discovered that cinnamon has at least one nice feature that gnome doesn't (seeing window previews by hovering over an app in the dock). But LM 18.3 is running an older kernel (4.

and upgrading to a 4.13 kernel (offered in software update) causes boot problems. Also, it uses older software, being based on Ubuntu 16.04, and I find LibreOffice 6 (in Ubuntu 18.04) to be a very nice upgrade. But Linux Mint 19 is due in 2 months or less, and will be based on Ubuntu 18.04. I believe that there will be an upgrade path from 18.3 to 19. So I may stick with LM 18.3 until 19 is released and make my decision then.

buster · May 12, 2018, 07:05:26 PM

Mike wrote: "I believe that there will be an upgrade path from 18.3 to 19. "

This probably is true, but I don't think there is a definitive statement yet. Many have suggested a fresh install might be best. I'll write about my Kubuntu system in a day or so. So far quite good.

Jason · May 12, 2018, 08:38:56 PM

Adding the Ubuntu team's PPA for LibreOffice should get you the most recent version. I haven't tested it myself.

Jason · May 13, 2018, 01:56:00 AM

Quote from: buster on May 12, 2018, 03:18:41 PM
Jason wrote: "I don't think I like KTorrent all that much. I don't understand what the heck it's doing with magnet links. It doesn't seem to be converting the magnet links to torrents like what happens with transmission or deluge."

If you add qBittorrent it wont know either. I've seen this problem while in Ubuntu Mate as well. The solution is to put a shortcut of your torrent software on the desktop and drag and drop the magnet link into the shortcut. HOWEVER, when I used this trick with Ktorrent, I couldn't see anything happening except an open Ktorrent and evidence that it knew what it was supposed to do. I checked in downloads and there was the downloaded TV show, all the way from Australia!

Strangely, doing this caused the desktop (it was on my other display) to go blank (as in black) and then it restarted. I notice that the panel disappeared on the main display too. Basically crashed the desktop which fits our motto so I must be trying hard enough! I tried dragging it into ktorrent instead and it shows up there but nothing is downloading, which is what happened before when I just clicked on magnet links. See my screencap for what I mean:

Jason · May 13, 2018, 01:59:15 AM

Btw, I happened to notice that Linux Mint 18.3 KDE Edition uses a Kubuntu PPA, it's just an older one, specifically in backports.

fox · May 13, 2018, 08:34:26 AM

That doesn't surprise me, since only LMDE draws from Debian repos and using Ubuntu repos would bring in gnome elements they don't want or need.

buster · May 13, 2018, 10:09:43 AM

Jason wrote:"Strangely, doing this caused the desktop (it was on my other display) to go blank (as in black) and then it restarted. "

Try this, at least in Firefox, which is probably the source of the problem. (Should be similar in other browsers.)

#1. In Firefox go to Preferences.
#2. Scroll to Applications.
#3. Select 'magnet'.
#4. Use the arrow at the right to select 'other'.
#5. Scroll to 'user', and then 'bin' and then 'qbittorrent'

Voila!

P.S. I uninstalled Ktorrent. Life is too short.

buster · May 14, 2018, 09:55:02 AM

Mike wrote: "please do post on your experience with it; in particular whether you get the annoying constant requests to open KDE wallet. I assume that you're testing it on a virtual machine, but I don't think that should affect the wallet behaviour."

No hint of Kwallet so far in either Neon or Kubuntu. And there is a place in settings I believe that lets you deselect it. But I haven't had to do anything so far.

Jason · May 14, 2018, 10:34:35 AM

Quote from: fox on May 13, 2018, 08:34:26 AM
That doesn't surprise me, since only LMDE draws from Debian repos and using Ubuntu repos would bring in gnome elements they don't want or need.

My point was that except for the specific LM features (like their Update Manager, Backup utility, etc), the KDE stuff comes from Kubuntu not from their own custom-designed repo, which I would have expected, at least the core stuff. Which leads me to wonder why they won't continue providing a KDE edition in the future. I guess there must be underlying development reasons that aren't obvious.