What distro do you use on your Raspberry Pi?

[fox]

Well if you haven't had enough fun trying light distros adapted for the RPi, you might be happy to learn that MX Linux, #1 on DistroWatch, has an RPi version in beta. You can download it here. Buster, I would have expected you to jump all over this one if you only had a Pi. 

[fox]

Just for fun, I tried Ubuntu 20.10 on my Pi 4; I did it in BerryBoot and installed it on an SD card. It froze twice during setup, but eventually installed. It looks just like the desktop version, but it runs very slowly, with noticeable delays in opening even basic apps like Files, and in closing windows. No comparison to Raspberry Pi OS (both 64-bit), which is more responsive in every way. In 20.10, the first upgrade took a half hour or more, and didn't improve its responsiveness. I suspect that the problem is Gnome; it might run a lot better with a lighter desktop.

I'm sure it would run better on an SSD, but I wouldn't recommend it on an RPi unless it has something specific that you need.

[Jason]

I tried Ubuntu MATE on it, a lighter Linux distro.

It's not light enough I guess. Because it ran so slowly that I'd click on something and maybe 30 seconds to a minute later, it'd do it. It was awful. I thought there was something wrong with the SD card. Put Raspberry Pi OS on it and it worked fine again. Maybe it was just a bad install of Ubuntu MATE to the SD card. It also took a long time to install.

I don't think MATE is very light unless you compare it to the Gnome desktop environment. I remember having an old machine and finding it almost as slow as Gnome on Linux Mint years ago. I wondered why and went into a Ubuntu IRC room and one of the users mentioned that the slowness was from me not having a separate video card and relying on an (old) Intel graphics chipset. I installed Linux Mint Xfce edition and it worked better.

It'd be neat if they had a version of Linux Lite for the Raspberry Pi since it's what I'm used to. Although it's Xfce-based so it might not run that well. In Preferences, you can choose how much RAM to allocate to video so that could help with slowness, too. Having only 1 GB of RAM, I didn't think it'd be worth it since only a few programs ended up using most of that RAM, especially running a browser.

[fox]

Here is a good article on the RAM use by different desktops, standardized by starting with Raspberry Pi OS Lite and adding different desktops to it. I learned from the article that standard Raspberry Pi OS uses a desktop called RPD (Raspberry Pi Desktop), a modified version of LXDE. This is apparently the lightest DE available, but other light ones such as LXDE itself, XFCE and Mate, are not much heavier. But these aren't running on Ubuntu, and I think that the Debian-based Raspberry Pi OS is much lighter than any version of Ubuntu. According to the article, the Lite version is not just lacking a DE, but also a bunch of apps that are not needed when you're using the Pi to run a single app (like OpenMediaVault or NextCloud). In your case, you are using it on a 3B, when has much less RAM and a slower CPU than my Pi 4 with 4 GB RAM. I did try running Ubuntu Mate 16.04 on my former 3B, and it was noticeably slower than Raspbian.

[Jason]

Interesting article.

I agree that Raspberry Pi Desktop is much lighter. I noted that when I first got one and it was using under 200 MB of RAM with several applications running. 

But there's more than RAM usage of the Desktop Environment that affects performance. In fact, I'd argue that unless you're actually close to using up all your RAM with normal use, which granted you likely would be on the Pi, how much RAM an OS takes up doesn't matter. For example, on that old desktop that I was talking about? Linux Mint KDE, Cinnamon and MATE were all dogs. I can't claim to know what it was at the time but as several YouTube videos have noted, Plasma takes up about the same amount of RAM as Xfce. But Xfce ran a lot better and does pretty much everywhere on very old machines or lower-powered ones like the Pi. Because it doesn't have as great graphics demand. Xfce lacks a lot of the bells and whistles that more standard DEs have. I don't where everyone gets this idea that lower RAM use means better performance because it's not nearly that simple. But for the Pi, yeah, it can make a big difference on the older models. With the model you have, probably not so much. All the DEs will use far less RAM than what you have available. Performance will vary quite a bit depending on the graphical requirements though and of course, how many programs you have running in typical usage.

[fox]

OK, just for fun, I tried installing Volumio on my SSD using the BerryBoot booter. As I noted previously, there is a Volumio version formatted for BerryBoot, and that is what I installed. The installation was done on wifi, and that may have affected the outcome. Volumio installed OK, but booting it just takes you to a command line interface. I could sign into Volumio with the default username and password, but couldn't do anything beyond that. I tried going to another computer and SSH'ing into Volumio using first, the IP address of my Pi, and then the IP address Volumio gives as the default when not connected to Ethernet. Neither worked; I couldn't get in. I also couldn't sign in through a browser, so in the end, I never saw the Volumio graphical interface and I couldn't set it up.

I can't say that this wouldn't have worked had I used BerryBoot with Ethernet access. Bill, if you try Volumio, on BerryBoot, I suggest you first set up BerryBoot with Ethernet connected, and then install and run Volumio with the Ethernet plugged into your Pi. I remember your saying that you were using Volumio to give you internet radio. How is it better than using Rhythmbox on a light RPi distro like Rasberry Pi OS?

[fox]

I tried one other distro on BerryBoot; openSUSE KDE. It is one of several distros that BB has set up to download automatically if you choose to install it. You can install it initially, or add it later. I did the latter. It installed and booted up all right. But working with it was painful, whether dragging windows, loading apps or closing them. I wouldn't recommend it.

[fox]

I tried Ubuntu MATE on it, a lighter Linux distro.

It's not light enough I guess. Because it ran so slowly that I'd click on something and maybe 30 seconds to a minute later, it'd do it. It was awful. I thought there was something wrong with the SD card. Put Raspberry Pi OS on it and it worked fine again. Maybe it was just a bad install of Ubuntu MATE to the SD card. It also took a long time to install.
....

An article just came out on using Ubuntu Mate on the RPi 400. The review was very positive, suggesting either that Ubuntu Mate for the Pi has improved a lot since the 16.04 version, or that a Pi 4 has enough horsepower to run it decently. I haven't tried it and am not planning to because I don't like it aesthetically and although I used to like Gnome 2 in Ubuntu, I have come to like the more modern version of Gnome. But you might want to try the current version on your Pi 3B and see if it is any more responsive.

[Jason]

I tried one other distro on BerryBoot; openSUSE KDE. It is one of several distros that BB has set up to download automatically if you choose to install it. You can install it initially, or add it later. I did the latter. It installed and booted up all right. But working with it was painful, whether dragging windows, loading apps or closing them. I wouldn't recommend it.

If you turn off all the eye candy, it might run a lot better. I can't remember the exact settings but it's in there somewhere. Probably under Window Effects or something similar.

[Jason]

An article just came out on using Ubuntu Mate on the RPi 400. The review was very positive, suggesting either that Ubuntu Mate for the Pi has improved a lot since the 16.04 version, or that a Pi 4 has enough horsepower to run it decently. I haven't tried it and am not planning to because I don't like it aesthetically and although I used to like Gnome 2 in Ubuntu, I have come to like the more modern version of Gnome. But you might want to try the current version on your Pi 3B and see if it is any more responsive.

That's what I tried, the most recent version. It was awful. The Pi 4's better processor and graphics processor probably helps a lot. But it still befuddles the mind why it was so bad unless they were only thinking of the Pi 4 when they developed the more recent versions.

[ssfc72]

I am not familiar with using or what Rhythmbox has to offer, as an internet radio, using the RPi.
I do know that the Volumio program installed on the micro SD card of the RPi 3B works very slick and gives me access to any type of music, both from normal radio stations around the world and internet music streaming.  I then use any device, cell phone, tablet or computer browser, to view the Volumio GUI and search for whatever type of music that I wish to listen to. The music selection then gets played from the RPi, running Volumio. The RPi only needs to feed to a pair of speakers. No keyboard, mouse or monitor is needed, for the RPi.

OK, just for fun, I tried installing Volumio on my SSD using the BerryBoot booter. As I noted previously, there is a Volumio version formatted for BerryBoot, and that is what I installed. The installation was done on wifi, and that may have affected the outcome. Volumio installed OK, but booting it just takes you to a command line interface. I could sign into Volumio with the default username and password, but couldn't do anything beyond that. I tried going to another computer and SSH'ing into Volumio using first, the IP address of my Pi, and then the IP address Volumio gives as the default when not connected to Ethernet. Neither worked; I couldn't get in. I also couldn't sign in through a browser, so in the end, I never saw the Volumio graphical interface and I couldn't set it up.

I can't say that this wouldn't have worked had I used BerryBoot with Ethernet access. Bill, if you try Volumio, on BerryBoot, I suggest you first set up BerryBoot with Ethernet connected, and then install and run Volumio with the Ethernet plugged into your Pi. I remember your saying that you were using Volumio to give you internet radio. How is it better than using Rhythmbox on a light RPi distro like Rasberry Pi OS?

[fox]

Rhythmbox has a bunch of radio stations pre-programmed with the app and you can add more. But this is a GUI app; you access it locally, not through the internet. From you description, it sounds like Volumio doesn't have a GUI on the app itself, but once installed, you access it via a browser like you do in OpenMediaVault. Is that how it works? If so, the reason Volumio didn't work for me is that I installed it on BerryBoot without an Ethernet connection. So it probably never set up. I might try a reinstall with a wired connection. Have you tried it yet, Bill?

[fox]

Manjaro has several desktop versions available for the Pi. I mentioned LXQT earlier, as it was one of the automatic installations available from BerryBoot. This morning I found a YouTube video review of Manjaro Mate (available here). It looks nice and appears to be pretty responsive, like the LXQT version. The Manjaro site is nicely set up for downloading installations for various SBCs, and they support quite a few.

[Jason]

Manjaro has several desktop versions available for the Pi. I mentioned LXQT earlier, as it was one of the automatic installations available from BerryBoot. This morning I found a YouTube video review of Manjaro Mate (available here). It looks nice and appears to be pretty responsive, like the LXQT version. The Manjaro site is nicely set up for downloading installations for various SBCs, and they support quite a few.

That's a thought. They've customized the Xfce flavour of Manjaro to look, as Borat would say, "very niiiiiice", probably the best look I've ever seen that uses Xfce. LXQt would likely be a lot better performing though, but probably not any better performing than Raspberry Pi OS although it'd likely have a lot more features. And since Manjaro lets anyone contribute programs to the Alternative User Repository, there might be more set up for it unless it's a proprietary program. The video says in its description that it's using a Pi 4 and has been tested on the Pi 400. And it was tried running off an SSD. Not sure how well Manjaro MATE would perform on a Pi 3 like I have off a USB stick (only USB 2.x supported on the Pi 3) or an SD card. The slowest part of a computer is its hard drive so having an SSD or at least a USB 3 flash drive can make a huge difference. I really like the look and convenience of the Pi 400 though, so it's useful just to have a look for the future.

[Jason]

I'm also going to have to try out BerryBoot. Is there a minimum size of drive you need for it? I don't really need to multi-boot but I like the feature you mentioned about how easy it makes it to install a distribution on the Pi and a greater selection than NOOBS.