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#1
Politics, Society and News. / Re: Simple Known Dangers with ...
Last post by buster - June 18, 2025, 10:47:42 PMJason: "My history teacher in high school had most of his tests like this. He'd have two statements to choose from, you picked one and then had to back it up with facts."
I wasn't thinking about a high school evaluation. I was thinking mostly in terms of a senior university arts program or courses where a student might be expected to come to grips with say an unusual event in history, or a novelist or poet who dominated a certain period of literary history. Analyzing why this occurred would take maybe weeks of research, reading, and thinking. Some of these things are still not fully understood.
The best students can come up with unique view points. The weaker will show that they have at least a basic understanding of the problem.The essay is not written just to get a mark. In some cases this sort of research is the reason to be in university. This has been a key way to learn for generations. This is how experts came to be, through study, research and writing.
Even during my short lifespan, I've seen that the learning started taking second place to something called 'marks'. When I was first teaching in Hamilton I borrowed from another teacher a text book on the middle ages. He could not believe I would read something like that if it weren't for a university credit. Learning to him was earning credits.
Anyway, profs have used essays for student evaluation. They were pretty good indicators. And the essay distinguished between different levels of achievement. There are other ways that are used such as small groups of students sitting around a table with the prof having a discussion about some philosophical conundrum where contributions are expected from all. Those who haven't worked or simply do not understand are easy to pick out.
My point is the heavily relied upon essay for evaluation is going to be useless. This does not mean the essay is useless. I think it's great tool for sharpening ideas.
I wasn't thinking about a high school evaluation. I was thinking mostly in terms of a senior university arts program or courses where a student might be expected to come to grips with say an unusual event in history, or a novelist or poet who dominated a certain period of literary history. Analyzing why this occurred would take maybe weeks of research, reading, and thinking. Some of these things are still not fully understood.
The best students can come up with unique view points. The weaker will show that they have at least a basic understanding of the problem.The essay is not written just to get a mark. In some cases this sort of research is the reason to be in university. This has been a key way to learn for generations. This is how experts came to be, through study, research and writing.
Even during my short lifespan, I've seen that the learning started taking second place to something called 'marks'. When I was first teaching in Hamilton I borrowed from another teacher a text book on the middle ages. He could not believe I would read something like that if it weren't for a university credit. Learning to him was earning credits.
Anyway, profs have used essays for student evaluation. They were pretty good indicators. And the essay distinguished between different levels of achievement. There are other ways that are used such as small groups of students sitting around a table with the prof having a discussion about some philosophical conundrum where contributions are expected from all. Those who haven't worked or simply do not understand are easy to pick out.
My point is the heavily relied upon essay for evaluation is going to be useless. This does not mean the essay is useless. I think it's great tool for sharpening ideas.
#2
Politics, Society and News. / Re: Simple Known Dangers with ...
Last post by Jason - June 18, 2025, 08:25:00 PMQuote from: buster on June 18, 2025, 11:11:28 AMSome of his kids had been academics, so we wandered in our topics to AI easily writing essays.
</quote>
If it can be written by AI, it can be detected as such by AI. There are already some paid services that let teachers do it. But you could enter shorter essays in the free version of ChatGPT and ask it if the essay is AI-written.
<quote>The essay will have to be replaced in the university as a grading device. However, how we assess the capabilities and knowledge of a student's mind will require some creative thought and innovations. That will be an interesting challenge.
Essays are only one form of evaluating students and can be done at the same time as an exam. My history teacher in high school had most of his tests like this. He'd have two statements to choose from, you picked one and then had to back it up with facts. The province mandated 30% for final exams, which also had a huge essay component in his class, but other than that, most of the mark was from those essays.
What would we be grading when we grade the mind? Does it include the stuff we can't remember consciously, but it's still there somewhere? Would it be passive? Would that be the ultimate form of teaching to the test? I honestly can't picture this replacing essays, multiple-choice, short answers and practical tests until AI can do all those things and not be visible doing it (to prevent cheating). At least not for a long while. But perhaps when AI has mapped every thought in an MRI scan...
#3
Politics, Society and News. / Re: Simple Known Dangers with ...
Last post by Jason - June 18, 2025, 08:04:52 PMQuote from: buster on June 14, 2025, 10:30:13 AMAnd I'm really interested in what AI would have done with this funny BBC April Fools 'news item'
search 'bbc spaghetti growing on trees'
That's hilarious. I'd rather have the famed money tree, myself.
#4
Politics, Society and News. / Re: Simple Known Dangers with ...
Last post by Jason - June 18, 2025, 08:04:21 PMQuote from: buster on June 10, 2025, 03:07:11 PMIf you search Google using 'danger' and 'AI' you'll get many sites. This is the one I read:
To be fair, if you search 'danger' and 'bed', you'll find many sites. Here's a BMJ study called "The Dangers of Going to Bed.". It's from 1947 though so it might be out of date.
#5
General Discussion / Re: No internet service for ov...
Last post by Jason - June 18, 2025, 07:58:30 PMQuote from: buster on June 14, 2025, 10:13:41 AMI suspect the whole world is going to fall apart someday soon. Sorry about your troubles. And dealing with a company's help lines does not match the pleasure of dealing with small local companies years and years ago.
That was dark.
#6
General Discussion / Re: No internet service for ov...
Last post by Jason - June 18, 2025, 07:57:58 PMWhat we want to know, Bill: Did you get a regular phone plan with unlimited minutes?
That must've been expensive on a pay-per-minute plan.
Speaking of phone service, I don't think you can get analog phone service now. Bell, probably the last company to offer it, is moving (trying?) its customers to digital (internet-based) phone service. I guess they're tired of powering those POTS lines, but it was a nice fallback.
That must've been expensive on a pay-per-minute plan.Speaking of phone service, I don't think you can get analog phone service now. Bell, probably the last company to offer it, is moving (trying?) its customers to digital (internet-based) phone service. I guess they're tired of powering those POTS lines, but it was a nice fallback.
#7
General Discussion / Re: No internet service for ov...
Last post by Jason - June 18, 2025, 07:53:37 PMI feel bad that I recommended Carrytel way back then. My experience wasn't as bad as yours. It sounds like they make little to no effort to help their customers. I bet the new modems weren't new. They probably sent you back the defective ones that other customers sent back, thinking it was just a problem with those users.
When I was with Carrytel, I had no problem getting a replacement modem. After the replacement didn't work properly, I contacted them asking for a technician. They said there was nothing wrong with the lines, so they wouldn't. Instead, they offered a new, new modem. I switched to Cogeco.
Cogeco sent out a technician to check the lines, and he found a problem with an outside cable. It had been buried, but somebody dug up part of it. He blamed Bell.
He said Carrytel should have sent a technician (from Cogeco), but probably didn't to save money.
I didn't stay with Cogeco long after they screwed up the time they were coming to do the switchover and then kept telling me "he will be there soon." They cost more, too. So I went back to Start, now Start/Koodle/Telus/Alcatel. I was previously happy with Start but Carrytel was way cheaper. Now we've learned why.
When I was with Carrytel, I had no problem getting a replacement modem. After the replacement didn't work properly, I contacted them asking for a technician. They said there was nothing wrong with the lines, so they wouldn't. Instead, they offered a new, new modem. I switched to Cogeco.
Cogeco sent out a technician to check the lines, and he found a problem with an outside cable. It had been buried, but somebody dug up part of it. He blamed Bell.
He said Carrytel should have sent a technician (from Cogeco), but probably didn't to save money.I didn't stay with Cogeco long after they screwed up the time they were coming to do the switchover and then kept telling me "he will be there soon." They cost more, too. So I went back to Start, now Start/Koodle/Telus/Alcatel. I was previously happy with Start but Carrytel was way cheaper. Now we've learned why.
#8
Meetings / Re: PLUG regular meetings?
Last post by Jason - June 18, 2025, 07:21:00 PMQuote from: ssfc72 on June 14, 2025, 08:28:55 AMA PLUG meeting would be good if there was a presentation to be done by someone.
Otherwise a PLUG Mug at the coffee shop is fine.
I was thinking about that. Maybe try for once a month, but if there's no topic, then have a PLUG MUG. I'd be willing to do the occasional presentation, although I haven't done anything interesting with Linux lately.
#9
Politics, Society and News. / Re: Simple Known Dangers with ...
Last post by buster - June 18, 2025, 11:11:28 AMAnd one more last thought.
While waiting for Marilyn at the eye doctor's building, I managed to strike up a conversation with a man who had been fortunate enough to grow up in Hamilton, close to the time I was very young there. We had a grand time taking about the city and what we used to do in our youth. Lot's of fun.
Some of his kids had been academics, so we wandered in our topics to AI easily writing essays. Only when I got home did I work out that essays at university will serve no function in the future. Originally it provided a way for profs to see if a student could extract information from what was already known to create some novel idea and present it in a clear and convincing manner.
Consider this analogy. Imagine you are taking a culinary course on baking pies. So you go to the store and buy a pie, and then present it as your finished assignment. This tells the teacher nothing about your ability to cook.
An essay in the future will tell us nothing about what your mind can see and do. We need to grade the mind, not some end product that tells us nothing. So here's what Harry predicts:
The essay will have to be replaced in the university as a grading device. However, how we assess the capabilities and knowledge of a student's mind will require some creative thought and innovations. That will be an interesting challenge.
While waiting for Marilyn at the eye doctor's building, I managed to strike up a conversation with a man who had been fortunate enough to grow up in Hamilton, close to the time I was very young there. We had a grand time taking about the city and what we used to do in our youth. Lot's of fun.
Some of his kids had been academics, so we wandered in our topics to AI easily writing essays. Only when I got home did I work out that essays at university will serve no function in the future. Originally it provided a way for profs to see if a student could extract information from what was already known to create some novel idea and present it in a clear and convincing manner.
Consider this analogy. Imagine you are taking a culinary course on baking pies. So you go to the store and buy a pie, and then present it as your finished assignment. This tells the teacher nothing about your ability to cook.
An essay in the future will tell us nothing about what your mind can see and do. We need to grade the mind, not some end product that tells us nothing. So here's what Harry predicts:
The essay will have to be replaced in the university as a grading device. However, how we assess the capabilities and knowledge of a student's mind will require some creative thought and innovations. That will be an interesting challenge.
#10
Politics, Society and News. / Re: Simple Known Dangers with ...
Last post by buster - June 17, 2025, 12:14:24 PMAnd probably my last thoughts.
AI seems to have many meanings. In some cases there is a simple algorithm in place where directions are being followed. Sometimes written or spoken speech does a good impression of human speech patterns, though the information gathered may be from suspect sources. In chess or the game go, the computer has the advantage of being able to process multiple outcomes almost instantly. Those of us who played chess also had to process a move sequence, but usually we could see patterns on the board which enabled us to select only a few lines to analyze. We knew certain positions were winning positions and tried to create these on the board. Humans cannot compete with infinite analysis.
Learning computers and semi sentience will bring who knows what.
And here's the final suggestion:
There was a tiny movie released eight years ago that is fascinating. It was interesting that it was criticized for any number of reasons, one being that countries wouldn't use this technology.
The weapon uses facial recognition, which some people have on their phone, small drones, which are easily made, and small but powerful explosives. No serious problems here.
Do an Internet search for Slaughterbots
(There is also a follow up movie later but I've never watched it.)
AI seems to have many meanings. In some cases there is a simple algorithm in place where directions are being followed. Sometimes written or spoken speech does a good impression of human speech patterns, though the information gathered may be from suspect sources. In chess or the game go, the computer has the advantage of being able to process multiple outcomes almost instantly. Those of us who played chess also had to process a move sequence, but usually we could see patterns on the board which enabled us to select only a few lines to analyze. We knew certain positions were winning positions and tried to create these on the board. Humans cannot compete with infinite analysis.
Learning computers and semi sentience will bring who knows what.
And here's the final suggestion:
There was a tiny movie released eight years ago that is fascinating. It was interesting that it was criticized for any number of reasons, one being that countries wouldn't use this technology.
The weapon uses facial recognition, which some people have on their phone, small drones, which are easily made, and small but powerful explosives. No serious problems here.
Do an Internet search for Slaughterbots
(There is also a follow up movie later but I've never watched it.)