Windowsfx (https://windowsfx.org) looks a lot like Windows 10 more than any other distribution by using a heavily-customized theme with the Cinnamon desktop environment and Ubuntu under the hood. It's not just the look though. They've added a digital assistant and even a settings area that looks like Windows 10 settings. Here's a short (7 minute) video (https://youtu.be/UEVM9W2H3ow) showing it off. It's kind of scary how closely it resembles Windows 10 and not just because a lawsuit is probably pending, especially over the name.
Apparently needs 4 g ram in virtual. I could try it on the downstairs machine. Maybe later.
Sorry about the screwup on the website address. It's fixed now (I think). For some reason, it's showing up in Portuguese for me when it didn't before. Odd. If you can't figure out that mess, you can go here (https://sourceforge.net/projects/linuxfxdevil/) to download it.
So buster downloaded the three and one-half gig iso and installed it. Seemed to me to take a bit of messing around to get it to work properly, but nothing horrendous. I am writing this from within Linuxfx (surprise!). I shall begin with my overall assessment:
This is a silly distro.
Win10 has some amazing slideshow themes. This doesn't.
Win10 has an unusual but useful menu. This has the regular Cinnamon menu, which is good but different.
Win10 has a way to get to all the tools and options unique to it. For this - learn how Cinnamon does this.
Win10 has some glorious pictures that change often as you sign in. This has one.
And I suspect others could find lots of other ways Cinnamon and Win10 differ.
It's like putting a Jaguar body and interior over a Toyota Corolla - it won't drive like a Jaguar! And of course, the reverse is true as well.
Far easier to make the jump to Mint in my mind. Or stay in Windows. Fox might like to give the spreadsheet they have a try to see if it does what he needs. On the menu it's called 'Excel'.
And in conclusion, I think it's silly.
QuoteIt's like putting a Jaguar body and interior over a Toyota Corolla - it won't drive like a Jaguar!
Yes, that's the entire point. It's not Windows 10 so it's not going to have the same core; it's a facelift for Ubuntu that makes it easier for those transitioning to Linux. And you don't mention the ways in which it does look like Windows 10. You just enumerate the ways it doesn't. But you also are saying the engine under Windows 10 is better by likening Linux to the Corolla. In real life, Windows is the Corolla and Linux is the Jaguar.
And personally, while the things you describe in Windows are nice, there are some serious downsides to Windows 10 itself that you're ignoring that you also get with Windows 10 with no choice in the matter. And that's probably because you use Windows 10 so much as your main desktop that you've grown to tolerate them. I only go into Windows 10 for gaming. It looks very pretty, no doubt, but I'm happy to get out of there for all the problems below:
The updating system. Why do I have to go through reboots and sometimes multiple reboots over the time of which I can't use the system just to get updates that in many cases are just Microsoft pushed programs down my throat?
All the malware. It's fine for people like you and me but think about all the people that use computers that get their systems infected because they can't put in the time to figure out how to not get infected.
Pushing Windows store which nobody seriously uses. You likely ignore it, too. So how come we can't remove it? And how come you have to have an account to use it?
Related to above, being constantly hassled to create an outlook/hotmail account that you don't need because you don't use the above.
You don't complete control on what it is installed on your system. I've removed programs that are bundled with Windows 10 only to have them come back again with a future feature update. Some programs
can't ever be removed. Edge, I'm looking at you. And you have no choice in the matter with these feature updates.
Let's not forget the telementry which I recently discovered isn't all turned off even when you choose the maximum privacy settings.
There are de-bloatware tools that can help with the last two issues but guess what? You need to rerun them every time you get a feature update.
Honestly, I think it's better not to have the core underneath but half a Windows 10 look for those making the jump because they don't like the drive system underneath. I'm sure you can find lots of cosmetic differences between Windows 10 and Linuxfx but I've never seen a distro that looks as much like Windows 10 as this one does.
I wish more people would post in the group about why they prefer Linux over Windows to help jog your memory, Buster. But I suppose that could be its own topic. I don't know how much time you spend in Windows 10 compared to Linux. I know you're in Windows 10 pretty much all the time as the host, but I mean when you do productive things or even entertaining things like the hurricane watch, how much of it is done in Windows? The reason the question is important is because you're going to be the most comfortable with what you use the most.
Ah, well. I think you're expecting far too much from it and missing the point of why it was created. But that's just this one guy's opinion. :)
Here's an interesting review (https://fossbytes.com/linuxfx-10-review/) showing some of the ways it's not just a customized Cinnamon theme and its computer vision system which might interest Bill. I'm actually a bit off on why it was created. From the article:
QuoteBut before you get too harsh for Linuxfx, you must understand the reason why it was started. Rafael, Linuxfx founder, says it is designed to ship Linuxfx computer vision software. But as some users find Linux difficult to use, Linuxfx satisfies them with the familiar appearance of the Desktop pre-configured.
The idea of Linuxfx is to make it easier for people who are migrating from Windows 7. People who are dissatisfied with the lack of security and stability of Windows 10 are also fit for Linuxfx.
Quote from: Jason Wallwork on August 26, 2020, 10:32:56 PM
....
I wish more people would post in the group about why they prefer Linux over Windows to help jog your memory, Buster.
....
I agree with Jason about the annoying way that Windows does updates. But I can't comment much more than that because I only have Windows (10) as a primary OS on my Dell laptop, and that mainly because it came with it and I don't need the extra disk space to run Ubuntu. I use the Windows side once a year to run U.S. tax software that won't run in Linux or a VM. Speaking of which, I have Windows 7 in a VM on my main iMac to properly operate with fillable pdfs created to run on Adobe Reader.
Let me try, again, to be clear - you cannot change one thing into another by changing it's appearance. I'm not implying Win10 is better than Linux. I am saying you can't change Linux into Win10 with a coat of paint. And here's something you can try for yourself. On a Win10 system, download some Gnome or Plasma desktop wallpaper and install it. Now say to yourself, "This is just like using Linux!"
Anyone coming to Windowsfx expecting to feel comfortable because it's a 'Win10 clone' is going to be more contused than ever. If they went directly to Linux, they would know right away they have things to learn.
I use both Microsoft and Linux every day very comfortably. But they are quite different. Pretending a few cosmetic changes alters this is just silly.
Buster, in the beginning you talked about the ways the appearances were different which is fair since that's what the distro is about, trying to get the Windows 10 look as much as it can. But then you got into this:
QuoteWin10 has a way to get to all the tools and options unique to it. For this - learn how Cinnamon does this.
And that confuses things in my mind since 'tools' and 'options unique to it' suggest something beyond just appearances. Maybe I'm the only one that sees it that way but you said "unique to it' which mean it's something that only Windows can do which must be beyond the appearance by definition. Those tools, I'm guessing you mean, the Settings area, are very Windows-specific. You can't expect them to be copied to Linux. I think pointing this out is unfair if we're talking about appearances unless you are comparing the way Windows and Linux work, not just look, which is totally fair. It seems that's where you're going. Then you said:
QuoteIt's like putting a Jaguar body and interior over a Toyota Corolla - it won't drive like a Jaguar! And of course, the reverse is true as well.
With that analogy, you're going way beyond appearance now. The reason a Jaguar drives different is because of its engine first and foremost and because of its controls (see above why this really isn't just appearance), So it looks to me that you've now opened up the argument to the engine underneath, not just appearances which is why I launched into my diatribe about why Window's engine sucks. Then you said:
QuoteLet me try, again, to be clear - you cannot change one thing into another by changing it's appearance.
That's so obvious that it hardly needs to be said. But you're providing a conclusion to a question that was never asked or sought after. Of course, it's not Windows, it was never meant to be. It was meant to change the appearance of Windows just enough to make it easier for users to transition. You're trying to encompass too much into what 'appearance' means. If you just meant to say that it doesn't look like Windows 10, you said it badly with your analogy and even the last attempt to make it clear.
Finally,
QuoteAnyone coming to Windowsfx expecting to feel comfortable because it's a 'Win10 clone' is going to be more contused than ever. If they went directly to Linux, they would know right away they have things to learn.
Now we get to the crux of the matter and the actual goal of the creators. I disagree with you on this point. However, none of us are in that situation - having not used Linux and coming from Windows 10. I don't think we're authorities on that subject. We're just missing data. You could be right, so could I. But since, in this group, I'm right by default. I win. :) I"m sure you'd agree. ;-)
Also, you missed two things I mentioned - how much you actually use Windows compared to Linux because I really am curious even though you don't have to say, admittedly. And how many ways it does look like Windows 10 instead of just nitpicking the ways it's different. I think that would make the comparison more fair.
I hope you understand that I do appreciate your comments/reviews and such, but sometimes you oversimplify things and are too quick to make judgements, in my opinion. But you know what they say about opinions, right? ;-)
I think an interesting exercise would be to have your wife be a test case. She is comfortable with Win10. Put Linuxfx on her machine, virtual or whatever, and get her to use it for a day.
She could give us insights that I can't, because I use both comfortably.
I'm interested in knowing how she reacts to the look, and whether she feels a Microsoft user could adapt to this easily.
Curious to know if this screenshot works. The desktop wallpaper is included and tells me someone there has a sense of humour.
Quote from: buster on August 28, 2020, 03:52:17 PM
I think an interesting exercise would be to have your wife be a test case. She is comfortable with Win10. Put Linuxfx on her machine, virtual or whatever, and get her to use it for a day.
She could give us insights that I can't, because I use both comfortably.
I'm interested in knowing how she reacts to the look, and whether she feels a Microsoft user could adapt to this easily.
I was thinking of that. The problem is that she's locked into her Windows games right now and hasn't even touched the existing Linux distro (or has and doesn't want to tell me what she thinks!). But maybe I'll still install Linuxfx telling her that I'm doing an important scientific experiment to which her testing could be integral. ;-) You think she'd buy that?
And that screenshot is awesome. :) There was one years ago that someone made showing Tux angrily breaking through the 4-pane Window. :D
One other thing you could mention during your presentation is that like Microsoft, no password is asked for before updates. Doing one right now while writing in Windowsfx and listening to some great Heart guitar work.
Interesting that there is a place to click and 'Change the product key'. Though it doesn't do anything.
Curious. Are you testing the most recent version that was only released within the past week? I think it's a beta based on the 20.04, the latest LTS. Although it also says it's based on Linux Mint 20 so that's probably it's more direct parentage.
Quote from: buster on September 04, 2020, 06:52:03 PM
One other thing you could mention during your presentation is that like Microsoft, no password is asked for before updates. Doing one right now while writing in Windowsfx and listening to some great Heart guitar work.
That wasn't what happened in my case. It asked for my password before applying updates. I'm thinking that you already did something that required a password shortly before that and that state was saved for you. It does this in the terminal, too, so that you don't have to enter the sudo password every time you use it. It reverts after so much time. Most Linux distros do that. Do a restart and try it again.
Might be the type of updates. I've done almost nothing to this install. I don't use it. Added some programs, changed to single click, and changed the wallpaper. Poked around and looked at things.
Or maybe it was just after I used my password to enter the distro, the update appeared, and the password is allowed a time limit.
Happened again. Went in about 10 minutes ago. Played a card game. A little notice came up that said I had updates. Clicked and they installed. No password.
Which parallels Microsoft.
I have had this installed for awhile.
Here's a 13-minute YouTube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPv9oRwV6io) that takes a look at Windowsfx.
I think the review is objective. He explains what he appreciates about it as well as some flaws. Humorously, he brings up how he hates one design choice precisely because it looks the same as it does in Windows. He mentions, among other things, that it's probably great for beginners to Linux to ease the transition but that veteran Linux users will hate it.
DistroWatch reviewed Windowsfx in last night's edition. View here (https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20200928#linuxfx).
I haven't looked at the full review yet but Jesse is mistaken about one thing. There are two versions, one of which is free. It can be downloaded by joining a Telegram chat supposedly. It's on this page (https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=pt-BR&pto=aue&rurl=translate.google.com.br&sl=pt&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.linuxfx.org/%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26view%3Darticle%26id%3D30&usg=ALkJrhjikzKMx9zb6ca_S6yd7BiZhInE8Q). Doing that involves installing Telegram.
I don't know if he mentions it but the commercial edition doesn't have a set cost. I haven't installed Telegram yet so I can't tell if you can donate $0. Elementary does a similar thing on their website, it looks like a purchase cost, but it's actually not. And yes, I know that most distributions are free. But if someone liked a Linux distribution enough to use it on a regular basis, they should "buy" their distribution either by getting a commercial edition of it or making a donation. People should get some compensation for their work even if it's a pittance because the vast majority won't donate a dime (I'm not pointing fingers. I know several have made donations in the past to Linux projects.
'There are two versions, one of which is free. It can be downloaded by joining a Telegram chat supposedly. It's on this page. Doing that involves installing Telegram.'
Odd. I just downloaded a torrent and installed a few weeks ago. Nothing unusual. No Telegram. Thought I would retest the download because of the comments and it was a bit unusual somehow. Got out of it and deleted. Had already deleted it form vmware.
Still don't like it. Think using it might be confusing. Better to know it's not windows from the beginning. Stuff is done differently.
Sounds as if I'm disagreeing with the world again.
Quote from: buster on September 28, 2020, 03:53:15 PM
Odd. I just downloaded a torrent and installed a few weeks ago. Nothing unusual. No Telegram. Thought I would retest the download because of the comments and it was a bit unusual somehow. Got out of it and deleted. Had already deleted it form vmware.
Jessie at Distrowatch noted the development happened soon after he downloaded it. The Sourceforge directory which previously had the files is now devoid of content.
Yes, you're increasingly unyielding, Buster. Why are you raving against the moon? That's
my role in this organization. :) :) :) ;D ;D
And where's your yarn, dammit? I'm eager to view the first installment of your composition.
I liked Jesse's review. His lukewarm conclusion suited me. I like the jab with this comment:
" Is it a test to see how far an open source project can push before being sued? "
Found this interesting in the weekly opinion poll:
Would you install Linuxfx for friends/family?
I would install Linuxfx: 87 (9%)
I would recommend another distro: 794 (80%)
Unsure at this time: 116 (12%)
Quote from: buster on September 28, 2020, 04:43:45 PM
I liked Jesse's review. His lukewarm conclusion suited me. I like the jab with this comment:
" Is it a test to see how far an open source project can push before being sued? "
I liked it, too. I assume it was meant in jest. Or do you think he was making an actual hypothesis? I often find it difficult to dessiminate between humour and seriousness online. But Windowsfx appears to be a serious distribution. If I recall correctly, it's several years old so they should have already received a 'cease and desist' order by now. I don't know if Brazil has similar copyright law as the US or even recognizes the DMCA so Microsoft may not be able to do anything. Regardless, the organization should drop the dual name structure and just call it Linuxfx so as to not raise their ire.
Quote from: buster on September 28, 2020, 04:56:19 PM
Found this interesting in the weekly opinion poll:
Online polls mean little. Just review many polls after mainstream news articles many of which we know aren't accurate as corresponding scientific polls don't concur . For example, "Who are you going to vote for?" or "Do you think the Liberals are on the right track?" They're skewed by the audience and the article's slant, particularly the summary since most readers likely skip to that.
However, I imagine it's not popular in the Linux community. Veteran Linux users, by and large, are biased against Windows and so anything that looks like Windows. If ZorinOS only came with the Windows look, I bet it would be viewed equivalently.
But the poll was directed AT LINUX USERS because they are the one who would be installing it for others. In this case I think it gives a fair representation of whether Linux users would install it for others. Readers of Distrowatch present a fair cross section of our community. I certainly wouldn't install it for Marilyn. I can take many Linux systems and make them comfortable for how she uses a computer. She would like Mint. She used to use Mepis.
( I also upgraded a Win 7 to Win 10 for a friend about a year ago, and worked on how it does things. He has said a few times it seems pretty well the same as it used to. Which made me happy. :) )
Quote from: buster on September 28, 2020, 05:31:46 PM
In this case I think it gives a fair representation of whether Linux users would install it for others. Readers of Distrowatch present a fair cross section of our community.
If you carefully read what I wrote above, you'll see that I admitted that most Linux users probably don't like it or wouldn't like it even if they tried it. But we can't know that based on a poll buried at the end of a e-zine. Online polls meaning little is not a controversial point. It's odd to me that you'd challenge a point in favour of something we both already agree on. Have a little more wine, Buster. :)
Your friend who upgraded from Windows 7 to Windows 10 and said it seems pretty well the same it used to be, is obviously a computer novice, no offence to him. I know nary a regular veteran Windows user who says "it's pretty well the same". There is very little the same other than that it still has a Start menu, but a very different one. One of my friends who used Windows 7 heavily but has also had to use Windows 10, asked me to install Linux on his computer because he hated the look of Windows 10 and refused to upgrade to it. Because of some genealogical software he uses, he still has to go into Windows so he relented and let me put Windows 10 on there because Windows 7 isn't safe to use anymore. But the Ubuntu MATE I installed on his computer, he can't believe how fast it is and he adapted to using it pretty quickly. That made me happy. :) I'll have to check on him again. It's been about six months.
"Your friend who upgraded from Windows 7 to Windows 10 and said it seems pretty well the same it used to be, is obviously a computer novice,"
Not sure why you say that Jason. I've done it for at least 3 people so far, and they all felt the same. Here's what I do:
- Get them to give me a list of the programs they use, such as photo software, browser etc.
- Put shortcuts for all these programs on the bottom bar.
-Show them how to use the home folder on the desktop to find folders such as pictures, music.
-Any folders that are difficult to track, I put a shortcut on the desktop.
-If they are adventurous, I show them how to use the search space at bottom left.
-Show them how to use the alphabetic menu ignoring the flashy icons. But the menu is almost never needed anyways.
And that's how they had used Win 7.
I set the updates to automatic and the antivirus to automatic, and it takes care of itself
Ah, that's the crux. You're using shortcuts all over the place. The only thing I put on the desktop (Windows or Linux) is files that I've created. Once they're finished or no longer important, I move them into Documents. I have quite an extensive subfolder network under that one. If it's a program that I use a tonne, like games, I'll put a shortcut on the desktop. I like keeping my bottom bar clean. But you're right, if you do it that way, you can switchover from Windows 98 to Windows 10 and it'd be the same. Compare that system to using the tiles which is supposed to be the big reason to use Windows 10 and you can't say it's the same! Also, the search wasn't in Windows 7, so that's a change, too.
I like the search. I use that all the time. I rarely use the menu structure because it's bloated. It's too bad, Windows 10 doesn't make it easy to sort the programs in a smarter way like the way Linux does it, by use. Most people think that way, not by names of programs. There is a way to do it but it's not obvious. It is with Linux, at least I think it is.
The update system in Windows 10. I'd hardly say it takes care of itself. Sure, it's automatic, but you have reboot after reboot. And I know several friends that have had issues after an update, both knowledgable and unknowlegable about computers. I always defer updates to a month or so later other than security updates (they get a week). That way, the beta testing that Microsoft inflicts on its users is done and I bypass that mess. On top of that, and this is only an issue for us, you have to leave Windows as the default or it can't do it's updating job properly. I don't care what you say, the Update system in Windows 10, while it works, is horrendous. Windows 7 didn't take full control of your machine so you couldn't do anything else while updating. You still had to do it for a service pack I recall but those didn't come often. Add to that that if you're using a notebook, you have to leave it on all the time when you do updates or if you choose when it does it then you have to leave it one for a while then. And then watch when it has a problem with an update and has to roll it back. All that wasted time!
People just put up with that kind of shit because they think they have no choice. I bet you could put Linux on it and they'd be happy, even Linux Mint or Ubuntu MATE. That is, unless they have specialized programs that need to share files with others, like Office.
As far as antivirus goes, if it finds something, do they know what to do with it, or do they contact you? That's a bit different too, because Microsoft uses a different system for detecting and cleaning malware. Sure, you can install another antivirus by why bother when the Windows 10 one gets high marks and costs nothing.
Windows 10 isn't the same as Windows 7, you've just made it easier for them. They don't do that in the computer stores so the initial user is going to face a drastically different landscape. Dragging shortcuts to programs to the desktop, not so bad, but can you do it with tiles? How do you add tiles? If you're not used tiles why bother with the upgrade? Switch to Linux and you save time and can ignore all that crap. You have a 'stuck on Windows' mindframe when you could put Linux on those machines. Shame on you, Buster! Don't worry, I'm just kidding. They're lucky to have a friend like you to help get Windows 10 setup to be easy.
Here's something interesting.
I set up my own computers, Linux and Windows, exactly the way I set up the computers for these 'novices'.