This is the revised edition. The original embarrassed me.
Chapter One: Never Look a Gift Horse in the Mouth
My in-law is a pleasant lady. She has the brains and personality that had allowed her to run a very successfully a business that kept her if not in style, then in comfort. And at the end of her long career, she was able to sell the assets of her business, and the land it was on, and buy a good home, and retire with no worries. While she could handle the bookkeeping, and the many people she had to deal with, and the long hours sometimes required, she was not only incompetent when dealing with malfunctioning computers, she was capable of making the very worst decisions.
I loved it when she called me to help sort out her computer or Internet problems. The tea and cookies were always appreciated. But this visit had a dark side. This error seemed so unlike her business persona. Somewhere from a web page she got a phone number for an agency that would speed up slow computers. I tried to hide my disapproval when she said she phoned the number, the repair guy went into her computer, and charged her sixty dollars for the speedup fix. Credit card number and name given, he was allowed to wander around inside her computer? Take your pick. Which one scares you most? There seem to have been no repercussions from this incident. And it improved nothing.
So I set to work, and it would be tedious to go through all the usual steps, when the outcome is that I accomplished nothing measurable.
And so after being unsuccessful with speeding up a very old Compaq desktop running win 7, I took my in-law with me shopping. I did some of my own research, compared prices and warranties, and after a week of discussions and a number of store visits, we settled on a very nice laptop with a two year warranty.
Most of you probably don't remember how long it takes to set up a Windows machine, get rid of junk, get updates, set up email. She is very pleased with the result if you are curious.
So she gave me her entire old system, excellent flat screen 4:3 monitor, keyboard, and nice at least 10 year old computer - 3 gig ram, 500 gig hd, DVD burner, lots of USB ports, very stylish case. No HDMI port yet.
Biggest task ahead of me: installing the factory win 7 from the extra partition. I've done this before on a laptop, but got misdirected this time by what looked like reputable sites who made it far harder than it need to be. I found an easy method but still..... for 3 days the computer was unusable. Admittedly, it has a slow cpu, not enough memory, and a slow hard drive, and I wouldn't let it update unsupervised. Since I used the method of installing the original 2010 'backup' from the partition that comes with most Windows computers, there were one or two updates. Or maybe a thousand. Like a decade's worth. This is the original Win7 backup software supplied when the machine was first purchased 10 years ago. When it wasn't downloading and installing, the hard drive was being scanned vigorously though slowly. So enthusiastic was the Updater, that really nothing else could be done. Or could be done because of the hardware limitations. And some of the downloads were large - one I noticed was over a gig! So what I have now is pretty well a different OS, but still Win7. After a large download, and a long install and some reboots, it seemed to be finished. But that was just a trick. It kept finding new updates. And when it was done, it still had lots of junk to get rid of, the way all Microsoft purchases have. And that took not only patience but decisions.
So when I was finally done, and the computer was finally an up-to-date Win7 system this was my biggest surprise: it was quick! Of course, this hardware was designed for win 7, and it showed. Wired into fibe, the Internet pages came up fast. Except for first call on software, programs opened pretty quickly. Could have a few windows open at the same time with no problem.
Biggest lesson for any system builder: Suit the distro to the hardware you are blessed with, and dig to find and get rid of memory/chip hogs running in the background. We all know this, but I for one, often neglect it in the quest for convenience.
And for all you Windows haters - this is an amazing system. Quite a surprise for me. I was going to install Kubuntu, but, having an open mind as I do.....
Chapter Two will be about Linux virtual machines inside this win 7, and how they work.
But what processor and speed? Dual core, quad core?
Also, Win7 reaches end-of-life next Spring. Not that you can't use it after that but it'll be at your own risk.
QuoteMost of you don't remember how long it takes to set up a Windows machine...
And that, right there, is why Linux is better. Sorry, couldn't resist. :D But honestly, I still set up Windows and remember well how long it takes.
Looking forward to Chapter 2, be interesting to see you running VMs with only 3 GB of RAM. I know it's possible but you'll definitely be using some light desktop environments, I predict.
'But what processor and speed? Dual core, quad core?'
Athlon 240, 2 core, 4 threads, 3.5 GH
'Also, Win7 reaches end-of-life next Spring. '
Ummmm. When's the last time any of us installed with a 'forever after' feeling?
'And that, right there, is why Linux is better. '
The profound bitterness of a person who didn't get an absolutely, totally, completely FREE computer system like the one his friend did.
Quote from: buster on July 13, 2019, 03:20:22 PM
'And that, right there, is why Linux is better. '
The profound bitterness of a person who didn't get an absolutely, totally, completely FREE computer system like the one his friend did.
Totally wrong. Bzzzzt. My i5 3.2 Ghz with 12 GB of RAM was given to me. Also, my comment had nothing to do with it being a free system. You could have put a Linux distro on it with updates and all the software you would have needed in a fraction of the time. Same point regarding the end-of-life. Why put an OS on a system that is almost retired when you could pick one of many Linux distros that would be supported for 3-5 years, at least? These are not unreasonable questions.
But kudos on getting a free system. It's always nice when that happens. It was also hard to get excited by a free computer that you hadn't mentioned the most important part of, the processor. Up until that point, it didn't seem all that great. No wonder it's speedy, it's like an over-clocked i3, probably partway between the performance of an i3 and an i5. Congrats.
You should post a pic of the case for us. I love a case with lots of USB ports, especially on the front. I keep getting ones with only 2 USB ports on the front and that makes me sad.
Chapter Two: Virtual Machines inside this Win7 system
Just noting that I have 1 fully installed Linux system, and 8 virtual Linux installs at the moment, to go with 3 Windows installs. All of this is spread over 4 computer cases. A virtual OS is not needed, but I'm curious.
Jason warned me about this, and I have to admit he is correct - the memory is insufficient for good vm performance. Kubuntu wouldn't even install as a virtual.
But it doesn't end there. I did get Peppermint and MX to run well, but couldn't get drag and drop to work with MX from Windows to MX. Xfce in virtual, at least for me, handles drag and drop intermittently at best. And yes I installed the open tools.
One more virtual distro try with the new Q4OS, based on Debian Buster, that was released recently. (The name itself guarantees success.) In the Win 7 and old hardware it showed its fitness. It works very well.
So unless I steal memory from the other old computer, there's not much to write about for virtual machines, except Q4OS.
Chapter Three: Why You Shouldn't do this, and Why You Should.
I know what it's like to have sound issues, and on considerably newer computers than the one you're working with. Neither Ubuntu nor Mint sees my late 2015 iMac speakers - had to install a cheap pair of usb speakers to get my sound to work on it. But even on my 2015 xps, if you switch from Linux to Windows or vice versa, you don't get sound until you reboot a second time.
Chapter 3: Who Shouldn't and Who Should Go Through all This
Who shouldn't -
#1. Anyone who didn't get given an old Win7 computer. This is, without doubt, the most important consideration. And it would certainly be a handicap if you weren't given one. That lack would be, I should think, difficult to overcome.
#2. Anyone who doesn't have the patience of Job. And Job is one of the most annoying characters in the Old Testament anyway. Most readers don't have his patience and move on to the Psalms which follow directly after, which, in the King James Version at least, has some lovely poetry.
#3. Anyone who has only one computer. If this is your work computer, and you need it, think a long time before you go down this road. It may never work again. Listen carefully. It may never work again. Instead you could buy a replacement, set it up, and then do battle with your ancient Win7.
#4. Anyone who despises Microsoft with every fiber of his or her being. There are a number of our Linux club members who get extremely angry or nauseous just hearing the word Microsoft. I fear for their health sometimes.
#5. Anyone who has a great, light Linux distro that keeps them awake all night with an insistent voice, "Install me! Install me! An old computer like this would dance beautifully with distros made for old machines.
#6. Anyone who would rather be secure for the future rather than invest in a six month OS. As you shall read, this becomes a non issue after the great battle.
Who Should -
#1. Anyone who when told by Maria that she is going back to Italy to live in six months, would say, "Then let's make it the best half year of our lives Maria. Come back to bed."
#2. Anyone who wants to (sort of) recapture the work and effort of the 90's with various old parts, that for many of us were the glory years of working with computers.
#3. Anyone subject to bouts of nostalgia.
#4. Anyone who is old, and feels that somehow old things are better.
And coming soon: Chapter 4: Scrounging new hardware bits and pieces
depending on what RAM modules you could use I likely have some..also I have this sound card if it's of use- xonar DG-D7YACM012773
you could PM me with details etc.
#4a (should)
Anyone who is old and has nothing better to do with their time. :)
Chapter 4: Scrounging for Better Hardware
Safety first: Win 7 has a simple image making program included, so I used my external drive to back up the nicely running system. That felt better.
The ram is relatively low at 3 gig, so I laid the two old computer boxes side by side and tried to swap bigger ram for the 2g + 1g sticks. (There are only two slots.) After 15 frustrating minutes of attempting this, I made the unpleasant discovery that the other computer didn't have the needed DDR3. Quite a surprise actually. So far I'm living with 3 gig, maybe forever.
So on to the video. I have (a gift for other computer technical work I did) a 21-22 inch TV set with a 1920x1080 screen. Is that cool or what? In addition, I took out the Radeon HD card from my other old machine and put it into the Win 7. And it puts out an hdmi feed which the nVidea doesn't have. It worked sort of. Colours good but everything very large. Gigantic in fact. Searching the device manager told me the card didn't exist. Playing in the bios didn't reveal it after many changes and boots. Seriously looked like the end of the line for your intrepid computer warrior. Maybe a beer would clear my head.
Coming soon-Chapter 5: The Big Gamble
Chapter 5: The Big Gamble
Nothing I did with Win 7 would allow me to get the needed drivers. I didn't even know the number of the card - the computer couldn't see it, and I didn't want to pull it out and try to read the tiny print with ancient eyes. So I drank another beer to sharpen my mind even more.
Earlier, I had done some investigation into moving the Win 7 up to Win 10. This had to be done carefully I surmised so as not to jeopardize the OEM license. (Later I found out this isn't true.) Apparently, since a huge percentage of Microsoft computers still use Win 7, a disaster is in the making, and though little known, the ability to upgrade to Win 10 is still left open on the Microsoft site. I half tested the procedure using their software with the original hardware. Everything was fine except for the NVIDIA card. Looked like a no-go.
When I got the new screen and video card in I didn't want to go back, even though the resolution was totally wrong. The new screen is almost twice the size, and not 4:3. So.... I know the card is in the machine because there is a picture on my screen. And I reckon Win 10 should be better at picking up hardware like this. I can always go back to that old fashioned OS with the old fashioned monitor if everything fails - I have an image on an external drive.
"A life lived in fear is a life half lived." (Australian movie - Strictly Ballroom)
"With 3 beers, anything seems possible." (Harry, at about 6 o'clock most days)
So I started at this site and scanned down till I found an avenue into the Microsoft site:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/heres-how-you-can-still-get-a-free-windows-10-upgrade/
Pushing the start button was really easy, and the process started smoothly, and ran in a very friendly manner until an uncomfortable thing happened. There was a notice that read, "Video will be a problem using this card in Win 10." So does this always come up so people will purchase new Windows machines with new licenses? A sort of scam? Two principles competed in my mind:
Decisions made in haste can be regretted at leisure.
Faint heart never won the fair maiden. (My dad's favourite.)
In honour of my dad, I confirmed that I recognized the problem, and continued. And soon: Chapter 6: The Final Battle
May I have the Rights to publish this wonderful story, as a book? :-)
Your story is quite scintillating. Looking forward to the season finale although I hope they're be a season 2!
Chapter 6: The Final Battle
There is always a Linux distro waiting on the flank, to be called in if the battle starts to go badly. But still, after all these days of work, that would have to be considered a defeat.
This next part was just moving forward, covering ground. Time passed but there was no resistance. The Win 10 download accumulated on the hard drive until the installation started. It ran for quite awhile, and created some tension as the machine kept rebooting. The troops seemed aggressive and optimistic, but the commander at the keyboard jumped every time another reboot started. After long periods of uncertainty the battleground cleared to a lovely blue. The end was near. The results positive. And I knew the battle was won when Win 10 started asking typical 'I want to be able to spy' questions with very large print. I think I answered no to all of them. Final reboots and updates took me into beautiful colours and a screen that could not change resolution. One, I thought, minor skirmish to go. The battle had gone well, but the war was not over.
Device Manager is pretty good. You find the hardware you're looking for and right click it. Then select update drivers. No Radeon card of any sort showed. Win 10 knew nothing about the card. Which was about what I knew too.
Going on the Internet was like walking in deep mud. Everything was way too big for the screen, it took time and effort to get from one place to another, side to side or up and down, though in retrospect ctrl- might have helped if I'd thought of it, but it's hard to keep a clear mind in the heat of battle. I finally found the Radeon driver page on the AMD site, but because I had no name or number to search with, I had to slide the page back and forth and up and down to find a downloadable piece of software that did a search for video cards on computers. Even as I did this, I had a growing awareness that it might be difficult for the card to be found if the Win10 operating system couldn't find it. A depressing thought.
After installing the search software, I had to find where it had hidden itself. Searching C:, I uncovered it innocently disguised as a few file folders. Apparently I had to choose one of the things in the folders to get it to do something. I remembered a scene from a movie - should we cut the blue wire, or the red wire to defuse the bomb? I clicked. Nothing blew up, and after awhile I had some Radeon software on the screen, with very large print.
I found 'scan', and clicked, and waited. And waited some more, til I had to go away and do something else. If the whole week long process had been only an hour I wouldn't care. Too late in the day for a beer. Maybe a bit of snacking.
When I finally got back to it, the Radeon app said, 'Download this software'. Which I did. And I installed it. And nothing changed. But then it's Windows right? Give yourself a shake. So here is the moment. Buster vs computer, face to face. Mano a mano. I rebooted.
The colour and clarity amazed me! The print was crystal clear. The picture I had with Linux systems and this video card, using default drivers, was good, but this was outstanding. The whole system works well even with its 3 gig of ram.
One last battlefield cleanup. The video card has sound capabilities for the TV speakers, carried through the HDMI cable. So back to Device Manager, scroll to sound, find the AMD sound hardware listed, update drivers and Bob's your uncle.
Boot and done.
Total cost - none.
So now I have a wonderful, quiet, up-to-date Win 10 computer sitting in a crowded, hardly ever used storage room, with a crystal clear monitor, and great sound, and that I probably wont use a lot.
But it's all about winning the battle, right?
Copyright Ã,© 2019 by H. Frederick Ellis
All rights reserved. No part of this publication may be reproduced, distributed, or transmitted in any form or by any means, including photocopying, recording, or other electronic or mechanical methods, without the prior written permission of the publisher, or unless you happen to be a friend of Buster, except in the case of brief quotations embodied in critical reviews and certain other noncommercial uses permitted by copyright law. For permission requests, write to the publisher, addressed "Attention: Permissions Coordinator", at the address below.
Bear Creek Beers Press
Plugintolinux
Peterborough, Ontario
www.bearcreekbeerspress.com
Quick, image the hard drive to preserve that Win 10 install, before something breaks and you have to start from scratch, again!
Wow; that's quite a story! And written with the quality I would expect from a (long-retired) English teacher. Too bad that your dogged persistence doesn't extend to Linux and/or the use of the command line. If you can get Windows 10 to run on an old machine, I'm sure you can install a Linux distro without a virtual machine and maybe, just maybe, you can copy internet-downloadable text onto a command line to get it to work. :)
Now that you've got readers, you're going to have to follow this up with something interesting.
"And written with the quality I would expect from a (long-retired) English teacher."
Thank you.Very kind of you to say that, though for most of my career I was a mathematics teacher. I did teach the grade 13 English class for years while I taught math 9 to 13. I was fortunate in my career to have both subjects - each, in my opinion, makes the teaching of the other easier and better.
As for the command line: You should know that I am a missionary for The Church of the Mouse. Any technologically challenged souls will find comfort in the arms of the Sacred Mouse.
Congrats on your victory! Entertaining to the end. Next season you must do a Linux edition of your story.
I think to get Harry to use the terminal, we'd have to log him in a room with a computer without a GUI until he installs ones using a set of written out instructions in the terminal. And all the beer or wine he can drink, and snacks. It'd be like an escape room but the door won't open until he installs a GUI and presses a certain button present in it.
I like the idea! How about at the next formal meeting in September? ;D
I am shocked to read such intolerant religious views expressed openly in Canada! Maybe in a place like Alabama it would be expected. But being a born-again Mouseketeer is difficult enough with its sacred but very strict rules of behavior, without having to face the fear of abduction and confinement.
It's called deprogramming, Harry. It's for your own good.
'It's called deprogramming, Harry. It's for your own good.'
That's good Mike! Took me by surprise. I hadn't anticipated that response.
'Adventures with a 10 Year Old Desktop' Footnote
The problem with sound in the virtual machine could have been caused by a conflict with the older win 7 OS and the latest VMWare, or more likely, by my impatience. However, never with multiple hosts and various vm distros had I ever experienced this problem, which I did resolve with Win 10. Here are the variables involved which makes a series of choices almost bound to be wrong:
Linux distro:
There is a mixer to configure, sometimes as simple as increasing the volume.
There are two choices for source of sound with mine.
Windows
Again, source for sound, usually done automatically, but in this case...
Computer
...there are two sources of sound in this computer, the original sound card, and the HDMI signal through the video card. Plugging speakers into the original sound card switches off things that now require making different software choices.
VMWare
One Brit on the Internet said that with VMWare, the default is 'sound off', which I don't think is true. So in my case I needed to go into the software's sound options, choose my source, and then click 'Connect Sound'
TV Monitor
Sometimes the less than brilliant Buster would have turned off the TV speakers, and forgotten, and as a consequence none of the attempts made at that time worked.
But it seems to work nicely now.
Are you really objecting to beer and wine, Harry? Never has captivity been so good.
As an end to this thread, I'd like to show this picture of Peppermint, playing a Toronto jazz singer, in VMWare, in Win 10, on an old computer, with only 3 gig of ram.
Note: As long as nothing else is running, this is manageable. However...
Click the picture to see see the clarity.
Very nice clarity of the Desktop! I always did like the Peppermint distro.
Footnote 2: ram
If you look carefully at this picture (click to enlarge) you will see 8 gig of ram. Courtesy my favourite son. The motherboard seems to downsize the ram possibilities because of its limitations. Even so....
Noting the limitations of the cpu when doing multiple thing in vm and win10 simultaneously.
Not sure there is such a thing as independent 100-1000 Ethernet connectors for wiring in. The ethernet connection is built in to the motherboard, as it is in most cases.
Sooo! Harry, at the beginning of this topic you said the CPU was 3.5 GHz. I see that the Win 10 screen shot shows the CPU as 2.8 GHz. Was the 3.5 GHz a typo?
Quote from: buster on August 01, 2019, 03:54:16 PM
Footnote 2: ram
If you look carefully at this picture (click to enlarge) you will see 8 gig of ram. Courtesy my favourite son. The motherboard seems to downsize the ram possibilities because of its limitations. Even so....
Noting the limitations of the cpu when doing multiple thing in vm and win10 simultaneously.
Not sure there is such a thing as independent 100-1000 Ethernet connectors for wiring in. The ethernet connection is built in to the motherboard, as it is in most cases.
" you said the CPU was 3.5 GHz. I see that the Win 10 screen shot shows the CPU as 2.8 GHz. "
No idea. I think one was with win7 one with win10. Or I may have looked up the cpu on internet. No idea Jason. Just know it shows as 8 gig ram
Sorry Bill. I'm getting lots of things wrong. :) Looked up the computer again on google. I must have just written down the number wrong, or looked up the wrong Athlon cpu. Any gorgeous Asian women drinking tea there tonight?
That's ok Harry. I was just curious because I thought maybe your son had given you a new motherboard, as well as the new Ram memory. :-)
I was sitting and facing the outside window again, so I didn't see any "talent" in the coffee shop. :-( I will have to remedy my seating arrangement for next week. :-)
Mike had a couple of good stories about his latest Kijiji transactions, last evening!