After the disappointment with Neptune and its infamous update destroy mechanism, I looked for a KDE replacement. (In passing we should note that 18.3 is the final Mint KDE release. Clem says it is too unlike the others and requires too much manpower to keep it to their high standards.)
OpenSuse does a good KDE, but it is not to everyone's taste. Neptune will rip your soul out after you come to like it. Maybe Kubuntu is good, but in the past I had problems with it.
So with VMWare as a host, I installed KDE Neon with 2 gig ram, and a 50 gig hard drive. Using Synaptic I added the vmware guest software, including the one for desktop. As well I got qBittorrent, Kpat and Extreme Tuxracer for the usual tests.
#1. I don't recall any problems with the install. Seemed pretty easy.
#2. Discover has worked PERFECTLY for a few days now. (Eat your heart out Neptune users.)
#3. Graphics as excellent as it gets in virtual, except for Linux Lite.
#4. Drag and drop either way between host and guest flawless.
#5. So far quick and responsive.
#6. If you go to themes, you will find two choices. I changed to 'dark' and really liked its appearance. (See included picture.)
#7. I like how it feels under my keyboard and mouse. So far seems a pretty good KDE distro, and is sure to improve.
It has a few minor quirks, which may be my laziness in tracking them down to an error I made, but really nothing at all. So if you wish to experiment with a KDE Wayland this is probably a good one to try. Love to hear feedback
KDE Neon is quite good, but it's cutting edge so there may be stability issues. Myself, I wouldn't use it as a regular distro, but it is neat to try. In my opinion, OpenSUSE is very attractive and well coordinated design-wise. My most recent experience is with OpenSUSE tumbleweed though, and I'm not sure that LEAP has the exact same design elements. Like Neon, I wouldn't recommend tumbleweed as one's regular distro; it's rolling release and a version I installed got borked after an update. I haven't tried Kubuntu, but I have indirectly by installing KDE on top of Ubuntu. I have this on one of my old computers, and I recently updated it to 18.04. I have to say it's quite good, and the only problem I have experienced with it is pretty minor (KDE wallet keeps asking for password), and may not even occur if you use Kubuntu directly. I've had it installed for several months and it runs well. Kubuntu itself has received good reviews.
I didn't use it for very long but the Neon I had on the laptop ran fine. Didn't have any issues that I remember. I liked the dark theme it came with, too.
I should point out, and you may have meant this, Mike, that Neon should be fairly stable, it's only the desktop that is cutting edge, they even mention this on the website that it's solid and stable. The underlying core is Ubuntu LTS, probably still 16.04 at this stage but I haven't checked.
I thought I was going to go to Kubuntu next after OpenSUSE 42.3 Leap with KDE wasn't really fitting my needs (more because of OpenSUSE issues than the KDE in it).
However, I reconsidered Linux Mint 18.3 KDE after I realized that it will be supported until 2021. Right now, I just want to know with what I know is solid and easy to get up and running with and after using it for a day, it feels just as solid as the other desktop versions of LM. And I'm okay with changing in the next few years to another distro thought it will likely be Debian or Ubuntu-derived since the apps I used have the best support under those bases.
Here's my desktop right now the left-side has those dark bars because it's a smaller secondary display.
I thought Neon was potentially unstable because, although it uses a stable Ubuntu base, they are the first to put up the latest iteration of KDE (as you noted above). If LM 18.3 KDE is supported until 2021, that's the same as Kubuntu. (LTS versions of most Ubuntu variants are only supported for 3 years.)
So you are now using KDE as your regular desktop? I never went that far. I like the design and functionality, and once I played with it, I found that I could change the look and feel to something I like. However, it installs kde apps that I don't like as much as their gtk equivalents. I know you can add the gtk apps and they work under kde, but I don't know whether deleting stuff like amarok (which I never liked) and korganizer also removes parts of the kde desktop that one needs. Nevertheless, I am potentially open to the possibility of switching from gnome to kde. That's why I had openSUSE tumbleweed installed, and I liked it until an update made it inoperable.
Nice desktop, Jason. Neat that you took a snapshot while you were writing your post. But anyone looking at your snapshot now knows a lot about you, as the tabs and folders shown tell viewers what you're interested in. Speaking of which, what are you reading under anti-slavery manuscripts?
Quote from: fox on May 12, 2018, 07:39:41 AM
I thought Neon was potentially unstable because, although it uses a stable Ubuntu base, they are the first to put up the latest iteration of KDE (as you noted above). If LM 18.3 KDE is supported until 2021, that's the same as Kubuntu. (LTS versions of most Ubuntu variants are only supported for 3 years.)
Yeah, but LM is nicer and I prefer to stay with what I know. I know I could get a later version of core packages with Kubuntu though.
QuoteSo you are now using KDE as your regular desktop? I never went that far. I like the design and functionality, and once I played with it, I found that I could change the look and feel to something I like. However, it installs kde apps that I don't like as much as their gtk equivalents. I know you can add the gtk apps and they work under kde, but I don't know whether deleting stuff like amarok (which I never liked) and korganizer also removes parts of the kde desktop that one needs. Nevertheless, I am potentially open to the possibility of switching from gnome to kde. That's why I had openSUSE tumbleweed installed, and I liked it until an update made it inoperable.
Yep, have been for a few days now. I'm re-learning some stuff and I don't think I like KTorrent all that much. I don't understand what the heck it's doing with magnet links. It doesn't seem to be converting the magnet links to torrents like what happens with transmission or deluge.
Regarding what apps are needed for the KDE desktop, if you try out neon, you will see it comes with hardly anything which means there aren't many apps that are a part of the base KDE desktop. I don't think it will allow you to remove those core apps, like kate, konsole and konqueror, for example. If you try it in synaptic, you will probably see it deselect everything kde, other minimalist package managers probably won't even let you get that far.
QuoteNice desktop, Jason. Neat that you took a snapshot while you were writing your post. But anyone looking at your snapshot now knows a lot about you, as the tabs and folders shown tell viewers what you're interested in. Speaking of which, what are you reading under anti-slavery manuscripts?
I wouldn't say it reveals a lot about me, that I dabble in Java and Python and am interested in history and politics? Not sure how anybody could benefit knowing that. I've mentioned those interests here as well.
The manuscripts was a project I was participating in where you transcribe letters written by abolitionists to each other. Haven't done much of it lately but it is interesting volunteer work. You really get a feel for the culture that existed then in not just what they talk about it but how they talk about it, some of terms they use and so on.
Jason wrote: "I don't think I like KTorrent all that much. I don't understand what the heck it's doing with magnet links. It doesn't seem to be converting the magnet links to torrents like what happens with transmission or deluge."
If you add qBittorrent it wont know either. I've seen this problem while in Ubuntu Mate as well. The solution is to put a shortcut of your torrent software on the desktop and drag and drop the magnet link into the shortcut. HOWEVER, when I used this trick with Ktorrent, I couldn't see anything happening except an open Ktorrent and evidence that it knew what it was supposed to do. I checked in downloads and there was the downloaded TV show, all the way from Australia!
qBittorrent worked with this trick though. And I could see it the same way as you usually can.
I'm in Kubuntu by the way. Very nice! More on it later.
Quote from: buster on May 12, 2018, 03:18:41 PM
....
I'm in Kubuntu by the way. Very nice! More on it later.
If I were to switch to KDE it would be with Kubuntu 18.04, mainly to get fairly recent packages. Buster, please do post on your experience with it; in particular whether you get the annoying constant requests to open KDE wallet. I assume that you're testing it on a virtual machine, but I don't think that should affect the wallet behaviour.
Regarding Jason's earlier comment about continuing with LM because it's what he knows, I'm in a bit of the same dilemma now on my office iMac. I have been using LM 18.3 cinnamon for close to a year on it because it was the only distro that would start up quickly on it without messing with grub parameters or installing the previous Ubuntu LTS and using a proprietary Radeon driver. But with kernel 4.15 in Ubuntu 18.04, I no longer have these problems and it purrs on this computer. Now I have to decide whether to switch or not. Mint cinnamon has been great on this computer and I discovered that cinnamon has at least one nice feature that gnome doesn't (seeing window previews by hovering over an app in the dock). But LM 18.3 is running an older kernel (4.8) and upgrading to a 4.13 kernel (offered in software update) causes boot problems. Also, it uses older software, being based on Ubuntu 16.04, and I find LibreOffice 6 (in Ubuntu 18.04) to be a very nice upgrade. But Linux Mint 19 is due in 2 months or less, and will be based on Ubuntu 18.04. I believe that there will be an upgrade path from 18.3 to 19. So I may stick with LM 18.3 until 19 is released and make my decision then.
Mike wrote: "I believe that there will be an upgrade path from 18.3 to 19. "
This probably is true, but I don't think there is a definitive statement yet. Many have suggested a fresh install might be best. I'll write about my Kubuntu system in a day or so. So far quite good.
Adding the Ubuntu team's PPA for LibreOffice (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LibreOffice) should get you the most recent version. I haven't tested it myself.
Quote from: buster on May 12, 2018, 03:18:41 PM
Jason wrote: "I don't think I like KTorrent all that much. I don't understand what the heck it's doing with magnet links. It doesn't seem to be converting the magnet links to torrents like what happens with transmission or deluge."
If you add qBittorrent it wont know either. I've seen this problem while in Ubuntu Mate as well. The solution is to put a shortcut of your torrent software on the desktop and drag and drop the magnet link into the shortcut. HOWEVER, when I used this trick with Ktorrent, I couldn't see anything happening except an open Ktorrent and evidence that it knew what it was supposed to do. I checked in downloads and there was the downloaded TV show, all the way from Australia!
Strangely, doing this caused the desktop (it was on my other display) to go blank (as in black) and then it restarted. I notice that the panel disappeared on the main display too. Basically crashed the desktop which fits our motto so I must be trying hard enough! I tried dragging it into ktorrent instead and it shows up there but nothing is downloading, which is what happened before when I just clicked on magnet links. See my screencap for what I mean:
Btw, I happened to notice that Linux Mint 18.3 KDE Edition uses a Kubuntu PPA, it's just an older one, specifically in backports.
That doesn't surprise me, since only LMDE draws from Debian repos and using Ubuntu repos would bring in gnome elements they don't want or need.
Jason wrote:"Strangely, doing this caused the desktop (it was on my other display) to go blank (as in black) and then it restarted. "
Try this, at least in Firefox, which is probably the source of the problem. (Should be similar in other browsers.)
#1. In Firefox go to Preferences.
#2. Scroll to Applications.
#3. Select 'magnet'.
#4. Use the arrow at the right to select 'other'.
#5. Scroll to 'user', and then 'bin' and then 'qbittorrent'
Voila!
P.S. I uninstalled Ktorrent. Life is too short.
Mike wrote: "please do post on your experience with it; in particular whether you get the annoying constant requests to open KDE wallet. I assume that you're testing it on a virtual machine, but I don't think that should affect the wallet behaviour."
No hint of Kwallet so far in either Neon or Kubuntu. And there is a place in settings I believe that lets you deselect it. But I haven't had to do anything so far.
Quote from: fox on May 13, 2018, 08:34:26 AM
That doesn't surprise me, since only LMDE draws from Debian repos and using Ubuntu repos would bring in gnome elements they don't want or need.
My point was that except for the specific LM features (like their Update Manager, Backup utility, etc), the KDE stuff comes from Kubuntu not from their own custom-designed repo, which I would have expected, at least the core stuff. Which leads me to wonder why they won't continue providing a KDE edition in the future. I guess there must be underlying development reasons that aren't obvious.
Quote from: buster on May 13, 2018, 10:09:43 AM
Jason wrote:"Strangely, doing this caused the desktop (it was on my other display) to go blank (as in black) and then it restarted. "
Try this, at least in Firefox, which is probably the source of the problem. (Should be similar in other browsers.)
#1. In Firefox go to Preferences.
#2. Scroll to Applications.
#3. Select 'magnet'.
#4. Use the arrow at the right to select 'other'.
#5. Scroll to 'user', and then 'bin' and then 'qbittorrent'
Voila!
P.S. I uninstalled Ktorrent. Life is too short.
Thanks. I knew the steps involved in doing this but never though it was ktorrent that was the issue. But apparently it is after I changed the handler to Transmission, it worked perfectly. Weird. Wonder what is going on there. But I prefer Transmission anyway, though it looks a bit weird in LM KDE whith crazily big buttons. See the screencap for what I mean. I just turned off the filter bar, which is what that was and it looks fine now.
Update: Found out I can fix the issue with the huge buttons by installing qTransmission which is the same as Transmission but build using the Qt toolkit (which has the widgets for KDE apps). See the second screenshot to see what i mean.
Haven't received requests for KDE Wallet in LM KDE but I did in OpenSUSE with the KDE desktop. But as Buster says, it can be disabled. Just go to KDE Wallet and that opens up a configuration dialog and then unset 'Enable the KDE wallet subsystem'.
Just noticed something else interesting. Though I don't recall being asked about KDE Wallet ever, it's enabled for me. And if I go to KDE Wallet Manager, it turns out there is a few saved passwords. Seems it's been doing silently in the background and since it didn't ask for a password in the beginning (what the KDE Wallet prompt is all about), it must just be using my user password. I disabled it since I already have an encrypted password manager with LastPass.
I would imagine that the LM tools (and there are quite a few) are either specific to KDE or there has to be a version specific to KDE. Plus, all the (K)ubuntu updates have to be checked in Mint. They probably don't have enough developers to keep that up for the KDE version or alternatively, there aren't enough users of it to make it worthwhile.
Picked this up : "This means Linux Mint 19 will be available only in Cinnamon, Xfce and MATE editions. According to Clement, KDE apps, ecosystem and QT toolkit have “very little in common†with their present project. Another reason for dropping KDE is that Mint team works hard on developing features for tools like Xed, Mintlocale, Blueberry, Slick Greeter but they only work with MATE, Xfce and Cinnamon and not KDE.
He also said that in as much as the project wants to diversify in order to attract a bigger market for Linux, they also want to focus on what they “do well and we love doing to get better and better at doing them. KDE is amazing but it’s not what we want to focus on.â€
The announcement, however, was soft on KDE users as it states they will be able to install KDE on top of Linux Mint 19 (unofficially) and will also be able to port Mint software to Kubuntu. Suggestions were also made KDE users could also try Arch Linux “to follow upstream KDE more closelyâ€."
Good points, both.
Buster: I hadn't even noticed that the tools Xed, Mintlocale, Blueberry and Slick Greeter were missing. I only know what the first one even is. :-)
And it does make sense that you can install KDE on top of Linux Mint 19. From what they're saying, it seems like that what Linux Mint 18.x is since it doesn't have the apps above and gets its KDE stuff from Kubuntu directly. Not sure if the updates to KDE apps are coming from there or not. I'll check the next time I see updates. But it makes sense what Fox has said, that they'd still have to look them over to rate them in their Update Manager.
Linux Mint is slick. I had forgotten when I tried other distros how much I like their Update Manager. It's good to know before you apply an update the potential impact. In my case, if I see anything like a 4 (usually kernel updates), I use Timeshift to do a system backup beforehand and apply them one at a time (this last part they recommend).
Jason wrote: "And it does make sense that you can install KDE on top of Linux Mint 19."
People do this, but I have to think you'd have a better experience using a KDE-centic distro rather than dropping in a 'foreign' desktop on top of a substrata designed for something different. And the KDE for Mint is going to be an 'unofficial' Mint.
Quote from: buster on May 15, 2018, 11:01:14 AM
Jason wrote: "And it does make sense that you can install KDE on top of Linux Mint 19."
People do this, but I have to think you'd have a better experience using a KDE-centic distro rather than dropping in a 'foreign' desktop on top of a substrata designed for something different. And the KDE for Mint is going to be an 'unofficial' Mint.
Perhaps. But I don't think in this case the substrata makes that much difference because it will still be the same underneath the desktop layer. Let's face it, neither of really know until it happens because neither of us understand exactly what LM changes beyond Ubuntu other than the additional applications they've created and the Cinnamon desktop which they originally created. In any case, I'm good until 2021 before I will have to make that decision.
Btw, you can do quotes just by clicking on 'Quote' button on my post and then just delete anything that doesn't apply. It makes the quotes stand out better and is a lot easier to tell at a quick glance you're quoting somebody plus it posts the name for you so you don't have to add it. If you don't see a Quote button let me know. Perhaps something is amiss.
Or You could instead just copy and paste the portion you're quoting into your message box and while selecting it, just click on the quote button above. It looks like a comic chat balloon. But then you'd still have to type in my name. But that's handy when you're quoting from outside sources.
You KDE fans and those of you trying it out, see this (https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/05/kde-plasma-5-13-features-upgrade) article on the latest version (in beta). What caught my attention is faster startup, but there are other new features of value.
I like the more attractive login screens, they're pretty ugly right now. And browser integrations so you get a notification when a download is complete would be useful to me, too.
Here is a funny one on KDE, not specific to Neon. I have it installed in Ubuntu 18.04 on one of my computers. I plugged in a usb stick and later tried to eject. No could do because Dolphin doesn't offer that option; nor is there such an option on the menubar. The solution, open Nautilus because there is such an option in it.
Sure there is. Right-click the device on the left-hand side and then choose 'Safely Remove...'. If you don't see the option, it may not have been actually mounted.
You can also click on the icon in the tray and there is a graphic that looks like the physical eject button on an optical drive.
Note: I'm using LM 18.3 KDE but both options should be there.
That's what I would have thought, but neither the eject arrow shows, nor is the option to eject there in Dolphin. But both are there in Nautilus. Could there be something wrong with my installation? It's at least comforting to know that the folks developing KDE wouldn't do something so stupid like removing an eject media option.
Very strange. I assume that is Ubuntu 18.04 that you added KDE to?
Perhaps because you had Gnome first, it has to do the mounting under the surface and Dolphin doesn't see it. It's possible for the device to show on the left hand side but for it not to be mounted (or in this case, perhaps just not recognized as mounted). And in that case, you won't get the option for removing it. I don't know.
It's mounted all right. I can open the disk, and Dolphin sees it. I originally installed Kubuntu-desktop from Ubuntu 16.04 or 17.04 or 17.10. I then upgraded to 18.04. I don't recall having the issue prior to 18.04 but I also don't recall plugging in a usb drive running KDE.
OK; partly fixed now. I installed a Dolphin-plugins file and after that, I reinstalled Dolphin. Now a right-click on the icon allows me to eject the device. I still don't see the eject arrow, but that's no big deal.
Interesting, never thought of it as a plug-in to Dolphin. Good work!
I wasn't very scientific about it, as I changed two things at the same time to see if it worked. It might have been the plugins or it might have just been reinstalling Dolphin. If I had it to do over, I would have reinstalled Dolphin before adding the plugins. Then I would know what caused the problem.
Opened up Synaptic and apparently the package called 'dolphin-plugins' isn't installed on my configuration. Looking closer at it, it is actually for connecting to various version control systems (used for development). Must have been the re-install.