Peterborough Linux User Group (Canada) Forum

Linux & Android => Marketplace => Topic started by: ssfc72 on October 05, 2020, 05:58:27 AM

Title: RPI 4, 2G and RPI Zero W projects
Post by: ssfc72 on October 05, 2020, 05:58:27 AM
I have ordered a RPI 4, 2G board and a RPI Zero W board, plus some accessories from Buyapi.ca, today. :-)

I am interested in a couple of projects where the Pi Zero W (a very small stripped down Pi with wifi) is used with a very small audio amplifier board, to build a very small, Internet radio receiver.
Another Pi Zero project is to use the PI Zero to build a very small, very low power FM transmitter.

The  RPI 4 is to replace the RPi 3B that died, on me. There are also nice projects that make use of the RPi 4, as well. :-)
Title: Re: RPI 4, 2G and RPI Zero W projects
Post by: fox on October 05, 2020, 07:27:03 AM
I'll be looking forward to your reports on the rPi4!
Title: Re: RPI 4, 2G and RPI Zero W projects
Post by: ssfc72 on October 05, 2020, 08:57:37 AM
From what I have read, in comments about the RPi 4, is that it runs quite hot.  If the RPi 4 is doing any moderate to heavy computing then you need to provide the CPU with active cooling.  Either a very large, heavy heatsink or better, a very good fan or fan/heatsink.  Any enclosure, would of course, need to be well ventilated.
Title: Re: RPI 4, 2G and RPI Zero W projects
Post by: ssfc72 on October 08, 2020, 04:49:22 PM
My RPi 4 and RPI Zero W and accessories arrived in the mail today. :-)
Title: Re: RPI 4, 2G and RPI Zero W projects
Post by: Jason on October 08, 2020, 06:25:58 PM
Quote from: ssfc72 on October 08, 2020, 04:49:22 PM
My RPi 4 and RPI Zero W and accessories arrived in the mail today. :-)

Sweet! Did you get it with a big heatsink or fan as Fox suggested? I noticed the Raspberry Pi 3 ran hot, too. In the summer, it'd show the thermometer whenever I was doing much of anything on it. But when I put it near my personal desk fan, I noticed that disappeared. So, I had a cooler, and didn't know it!
Title: Re: RPI 4, 2G and RPI Zero W projects
Post by: ssfc72 on October 09, 2020, 04:30:53 AM
Yes, I got the heatsink package that has a large rectangle heatsink to cover the 2 adjacent chips and there are 2 small fans that mount on it.
Title: Re: RPI 4, 2G and RPI Zero W projects
Post by: fox on October 09, 2020, 07:44:32 AM
What case did you buy? Could you post the names/brands of everything you bought for your rPi4?
Title: Re: RPI 4, 2G and RPI Zero W projects
Post by: ssfc72 on October 10, 2020, 01:10:29 AM
I didn't buy a case, yet, because it looked like the one's  they had, did not have any ventilation slots to let the heat escape the enclosure. I will search elsewhere for a better case.
Here is a snapshot of what I ordered.  Note, I bought the 2G RPi 4, because I thought the extra $30 for an additional 2G of memory was a bit excessive, for a 4G RPi 4.
They had a better, slightly higher price fan system with a small circuit board to better control the fan but I didn't want to  block access to the header pins, that this circuit board may have resulted in.
Title: Re: RPI 4, 2G and RPI Zero W projects
Post by: Jason on October 10, 2020, 09:25:49 PM
Is the mini-HDMI to HDMI for the Rpi Zero?
Title: Re: RPI 4, 2G and RPI Zero W projects
Post by: ssfc72 on October 11, 2020, 05:00:41 AM
Yes, the adapter is to use with the RPi Zero.
Title: Re: RPI 4, 2G and RPI Zero W projects
Post by: Jason on October 11, 2020, 05:27:28 AM
Be sure to let us know what you do with the devices, particularly the Zero. I'm interested in what it's capable of. At one point, they were giving them away with a UK Linux magazine. How much did it cost you?
Title: Re: RPI 4, 2G and RPI Zero W projects
Post by: ssfc72 on October 11, 2020, 09:58:13 AM
The RPi Zero W was $21.  I had to also pay shipping but I was ordering the other items, as well, so it basically didn't cost anything for shipping.
Title: Re: RPI 4, 2G and RPI Zero W projects
Post by: Jason on October 11, 2020, 10:28:01 PM
Decent price. Who would have imagined even 10 years ago that we could get a mini computer for under $50?
Title: Re: RPI 4, 2G and RPI Zero W projects
Post by: fox on January 03, 2021, 11:17:57 AM
We never did find out what you used the RPi 4 for. I had forgotten that you bought the 2gb model. Did that turn out to be too limiting for your use? As you know, I am again considering buying a 4 to replace my 3B, but I still don't know whether it's worth an extra $30 to buy the 8 gb model. I would buy a 4 gb at minimum.

Also, what are you using the zero for?
Title: Re: RPI 4, 2G and RPI Zero W projects
Post by: ssfc72 on January 03, 2021, 03:16:39 PM
I haven't used my RPi 4 yet, because I bought it to replace the Pi 3b that died. Since then I was able to get the Pi 3b working again, so there was no pressing need to start using the RPi 4.  Now however, the Pi 3b has died again, so I will now have to setup the RPi 4 as an internet radio.

My very first post in this message Forum, also mentions why I bought a Pi Zero with wifi ( to also turn it into an internet radio). :-)
Title: Re: RPI 4, 2G and RPI Zero W projects
Post by: fox on January 04, 2021, 05:44:26 PM
I sold my Pi 3B today, and am looking to buy the 4 with 4 gb memory. I read a few reviews suggesting that 8 gb is excessive if you don't do a lot of multitasking or working with large graphic files. I'm debating between buying a make-it yourself kit from BuyaPi, or a Labists kit that is on sale at Amazon for $115. I would prefer to buy from BuyaPi (Ottawa-based), but the Labists kit is on sale and includes a few items you don't get from a comparable BuyaPi "kit". The labist case is also one of the nicer ones I've seen; attractive with good ventilation and space for attachment boards; you can see it here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZD6NaXsK-s). I'm going to buy tonight, so if anyone has any thoughts on what I should buy, please post.
Title: Re: RPI 4, 2G and RPI Zero W projects
Post by: ssfc72 on January 05, 2021, 01:49:25 AM
Thanks for the info Mike.  A very good sale price.
Title: Re: RPI 4, 2G and RPI Zero W projects
Post by: fox on January 10, 2021, 05:35:09 PM
I have my 4 now, and have just set it up with BerryBoot, booting from an old SSD. (Actually, it still requires the SD card to start up, but it directs the system to boot from the SSD.) Using 64 bit Raspberry Pi OS, this seems quite responsive so far; much more so than the Pi 3B. I would consider this quite usable as a desktop, assuming that the software I need is available. I'll be exploring that in the next few days.
Title: Re: RPI 4, 2G and RPI Zero W projects
Post by: Jason on January 10, 2021, 06:23:57 PM
But the most important question: did you get the one with 4 GB or 8 GB of memory?

I've read somewhere that if programs are compiled with 64-bit support, they will run ~30% faster. But they may just apply to PCs. The OS is obviously the platform on which everything else is based so having been compiled for the 64-bit processor should make a fair bit of difference. The RPi 3 has a 64-bit processor but the OS isn't as I'm sure you already know. And I don't think you can run 64-bit programs without a 64-bit OS but I don't know how many programs on the RPi have been built with 64-bit support. IOW, the increased performance depends on the software taking advantage of it. But the one thing you did get, regardless, is the ability to access more than 4 GB of RAM, a 32-bit limitation.
Title: Re: RPI 4, 2G and RPI Zero W projects
Post by: fox on January 10, 2021, 09:23:12 PM
I didn't install the 64-bit version on purpose; when I booted up BerryBoot that version is what showed as available. I got the 4 gb RPi4.
Title: Re: RPI 4, 2G and RPI Zero W projects
Post by: Jason on January 11, 2021, 08:06:46 PM
Quote from: fox on January 10, 2021, 09:23:12 PM
I didn't install the 64-bit version on purpose; when I booted up BerryBoot that version is what showed as available. I got the 4 gb RPi4.

The 32-bit version would probably run but I doubt there'd be any benefit to doing so with a 64-bit processor. So that makes sense.
Title: Re: RPI 4, 2G and RPI Zero W projects
Post by: gmiller1977 on January 11, 2021, 09:31:55 PM
32bit on 64bit doesn't have any performance increases.  If recompiled, properly, 64bit binaries will typically offer a performance increase of what Jason indicates.
Title: Re: RPI 4, 2G and RPI Zero W projects
Post by: Jason on January 12, 2021, 04:22:43 PM
Recently I read (and can't find) an article that said there might be a situation in which running a 32-bit OS (and 32-bit programs) on a 64-bit OS would be preferable - if your system has 2 GB RAM or less. 64-bit processors can access more RAM (> 4 GB) which is great but that comes with a bit of memory hit.

Everything running (as well as programs/data that is cached) is some space in RAM. Programs have to know how to access that RAM so each chunk of data has a starting address. That'd be like addresses on a street with the data being the people and things in them. But you also need to know where to find that data. That'd be like a phonebook. You need to find someone, it tells you where they are (or should be during a pandemic).

A 64-bit OS can not only store longer addresses it has to even if the address wouldn't normally need the space. Think of a phonebook that used to have 4 columns but now some people live at 8938493893493489 Lundy's Lane and they have names like John Iljieafiejliaifejeoigiggmmg instead of John Smith, so the phonebook can only have 2 columns now. There are lots of shorter names and shorter addresses but that doesn't matter. They all need that larger space now. The phonebook has doubled in size even if only 20% of those addresses actually need double the amount of space. Of course, that's assuming the same font size. But for the analogy, it would have to, because we can't make bits in a computer take up less room. So just like we need more pages in the phonebook, we need more RAM now just to store those addresses.

Someone told me years ago that if you're using 8 GB of RAM, 1 GB alone is used to store the addresses (assuming you're using nearly all of the RAM). That's no big deal on systems with lots of RAM. But if you only have a system with 1 GB of RAM, you don't want to give up 125 MB just for storing addresses that you don't actually need. So a 32-bit OS (which means 32-bit programs, too) is better for such a system. This might be why the Raspberry Pi 3 (and I believe the previous models) used a 32-bit OS even though it was capable of running a 64-bit one. With Pi 4, you have at least 4 GB of RAM so you can afford to use that extra RAM.
Title: Re: RPI 4, 2G and RPI Zero W projects
Post by: Jason on March 28, 2022, 11:35:44 PM
This was a REALLY old topic and the new posts are a new subject so I moved the new topic to the Raspberry Pi section which seems most related. You'll find it here:

https://plugintolinux.ca/forum/index.php/topic,1684.0.html

PLEASE create a new topic instead of posting a message in a thread that is really old. If you're a new sign-up to the forum, clicking new posts will give you a deluge of information. So if someone is looking for new information, they will likely look to topics that were posted the most recently and likely not the bottom of very old topics. It'd be a shame for anyone to take the effort to make a post that wouldn't be found. For clarity, a topic is when you create a post that isn't a reply to an existing one.

But PLEASE, keep posting; I don't want to dissuade you. It's great to see kalabaster has joined our little group of frequent commenters. Thank you!

If anyone's not sure where to make a post, that's okay. I'll move it. And don't feel bad if I do. You guys don't really argue much (that's my job!) and a moderator has to have something to do, after all! :)