After my disaster a few weeks ago in removing Ubuntu to get my old Dell ready for sale, I decided to be proactive for my new Dell (though I don't intend to sell it anytime soon.) What I did was to prepare a Windows 10 repair/reinstall usb disk. Which I did with no problem. My understanding is that I could use it to reset the computer to factory settings, including removal of the Linux and grub partitions. Of course I've done Windows 10 updates since I made that disk, including the latest upgrade to version 1903. So here is my question. Would I have to re-prepare the repair/reinstall usb disk to get those updates onto the computer I would want to reset?
Yes.
In other words, the disk will restore Windows to the state it was in st the time the disk was created, but without a user. So it will start the process a new buyer of the computer goes through to create a user, set wifi, etc?
In my case, I also have a recovery partition installed on the laptop. Does the recovery partition update itself as a result of applying Windows updates? If so, can I reset the computer through the recovery partition instead of through the usb stick? This wouldn't have been an option in my old xps 13 because something I did not only made it unbootable, but it also destroyed both the Windows and recovery partitions.
Quote from: fox on August 20, 2019, 02:47:45 PM
In other words, the disk will restore Windows to the state it was in st the time the disk was created, but without a user. So it will start the process a new buyer of the conputer goes through to create a user, set wifi, etc?
That I'm not sure about. Whenever I've created install media inside of Windows and I reinstalled, the user was something that was asked about during the install. I think what you're talking about is an OEM install done by the manufacturer. That would likely be on the recovery partition that you mentioned next.
QuoteDoes the recovery partition update itself as a result of applying Windows updates? If so, can I reset the computer through the recovery partition instead of through the usb stick?
I don't believe so but there is an option in Windows to make your own recovery partition. Honestly, you're selling a laptop, people are not going to expect it to have the latest updates. They wouldn't get that if they bought it new from a store unless it's one of the independent stores that is particularly kind to their customers. So if I was you, I'd just use the existing recovery partition. You're basically putting the machine back the state that it was in when you bought it.
Quote from: Jason Wallwork on August 20, 2019, 03:05:35 PM
Quote from: fox on August 20, 2019, 02:47:45 PM
In other words, the disk will restore Windows to the state it was in st the time the disk was created, but without a user. So it will start the process a new buyer of the conputer goes through to create a user, set wifi, etc?
That I'm not sure about. Whenever I've created install media inside of Windows and I reinstalled, the user was something that was asked about during the install. I think what you're talking about is an OEM install done by the manufacturer. That would likely be on the recovery partition that you mentioned next.
So if I understand correctly, I could make a recovery usb disk near the time of sale and use it to remove Linux and return Windows to its recent state, but I'll probably still have my own account on it. If so, I could make a new user account and delete mine.
Quote from: fox on August 20, 2019, 03:19:47 PM
Quote from: Jason Wallwork on August 20, 2019, 03:05:35 PM
So if I understand correctly, I could make a recovery usb disk near the time of sale and use it to remove Linux and return Windows to its recent state, but I'll probably still have my own account on it. If so, I could make a new user account and delete mine.
I believe that's correct. Note there are different kinds of media you can create.
For example if you do a search for the microsoft media creation tool, you can create a fresh install of Windows 10 but with the 1903 update (which would include all the other updates before it). But I think when you do the install, you will have to create a user account as a part of the install process. You're stuck with that no matter what you do, unless you use the restore partition which I think you said has the manufacturer-installed Windows so it won't have all the updates.
Under Recovery in Settings there is also an option for Reset This PC which can remove all your personal settings and files but you will have the most recent updates. There's also a Refresh option which I think is the same thing.
So I'm not sure which way you're trying to do it. As far as I know the repair disk option doesn't actually have Windows 10 on it. How did you create the usb stick before?
Quote from: Jason Wallwork on August 20, 2019, 03:47:31 PM
...
For example if you do a search for the microsoft media creation tool, you can create a fresh install of Windows 10 but with the 1903 update (which would include all the other updates before it). But I think when you do the install, you will have to create a user account as a part of the install process. You're stuck with that no matter what you do, unless you use the restore partition which I think you said has the manufacturer-installed Windows so it won't have all the updates.
Under Recovery in Settings there is also an option for Reset This PC which can remove all your personal settings and files but you will have the most recent updates. There's also a Refresh option which I think is the same thing.
So I'm not sure which way you're trying to do it. As far as I know the repair disk option doesn't actually have Windows 10 on it. How did you create the usb stick before?
[/quote]
All of these options look good to me, and even if I have to create an account, that's no problem. I did that for the buyer, with his first name and a simple password that he could change.
The repair disk I created for my first sale, the Acer, used a Microsoft tool, and it had the option to install system files. It took a long time. That one worked. As I recall, I didn't delete any partitions until it was created. I then deleted the Linux and grub partitions, started up the computer with this disk, and it restored the Windows bootloader. I was then able to expand the Windows partition to take up the whole disk. I don't remember whether I was able to do that from within Windows or by using a Parted Magic usb disk.
I saved that Acer usb repair disk for the old Dell xps restore operation. I first destroyed the ext 4 partitions on the xps, but there were a bunch of small partitions on it and I wasn't sure which was the bootloader so I stopped there, figuring that the repair disk would restore the Windows boot. But I had done one other thing prior, which was to move the Linux partitions to the back of the drive to allow the Windows restore partition to be moved to the right and the regular Windows partition to be expanded. I did these things in gparted with a Parted Magic disk. Messing with those Windows partitions might have been the problem. After that, I couldn't restore the Windows bootloader and I couldn't find a Windows partition with that disk. That's how I got snookered.
For the current xps 13, I actually found a Dell tool to make the restore/repair usb disk from. I tried booting from it and it works, but I didn't take it any further, as I don't want anything done to my laptop now. But I had the Dell tool copy system files from the Windows restore or Windows partitions, so it took more than an hour to make.
I think I read somewhere that once a computer has an oem install, and it has been in contact with the Microsoft servers (or not?), the fact that it is legitimate is known somehow. So you can download from Microsoft the latest up to date iso and install it. Maybe a few updates from there. The computer is 'recognized'.
Dougal knows more about this stuff. And try looking for it on web.
I didn't use this method because it hadn't got out of 7 yet, and secondly, I didn't know anything about this method. :)
Worth reading about. Save a lot of trouble.
There is one kicker with Dell. It has its own specific Windows drivers that I don't think are picked up in a standard Windows install. But they would be picked up in any of the restore methods we have been talking about. They can also be downloaded from Dell's website after a Windows install.
Quote from: buster on August 20, 2019, 04:58:58 PM
I think I read somewhere that once a computer has an oem install, and it has been in contact with the Microsoft servers (or not?), the fact that it is legitimate is known somehow. So you can download from Microsoft the latest up to date iso and install it. Maybe a few updates from there. The computer is 'recognized'.
Yes, that's a digital entitlement. It's pretty standard on any machine that has been upgraded from a previous version of Windows or already has a Windows 10 license. I've also read that you can use Windows 7/8/8.1 license keys for Windows 10.
Mike, I just used Microsoft's media creation tool from my existing desktop which has 1903. It takes a while to do. After that, I booted up the laptop with it and successfully installed Windows 10 Pro and I checked and it is the 1903 version. The things I do for you. :) I was curious, to be honest what it would look like, the 1903 install looks very different.
But a word of warning, when it asks you to create a login and password in this edition it forces you to choose 3 security questions and answers in case you forgot your password. I saw no way of getting out of this. However, I note that with the first reboot after installing Windows but before doing the setup steps (keyboard, wireless, user account, privacy settings), you no longer need the USB stick. So you could sell in that condition and the user will set everything up to their liking. It only added about 15 minutes extra. After a couple of more reboots, it's done.
That won't help you with the drivers obviously. However, what drivers does the Dell laptop actually need that aren't supplied by Windows?
Thanks for testing this, Jason; that’s above and beyond! I can’t recall all of the Dell-specific drivers, but there were about 5.
Were they needed drivers or just nice-to-have drivers? I know that my Toshiba has a bunch of extras that I can install for Windows 10 but I haven't bothered because it seems to work fine as is.
I'm pretty sure that they were performance-optimizing drivers. But I'll say this for Dell. They included several utilities that made it easy to optimize performance and find and install firmware and updated Dell drivers, and make a repair/reinstall disk. (This on Windows 10 of course.) These must be relatively recent additions; I don't think those utilities were available with the 2015 xps 13 that I sold. Bill, does your xps have such utilities?
this piece from wikipedia on updates may be what Buster was pointing to:
On the general availability build of Windows 10 Version 1507, to activate and generate the "digital entitlement" for Windows 10, the operating system must have first been installed as an in-place upgrade. During the free upgrade, a genuineticket.xml file is created in the background and the system's motherboard details are registered with a Microsoft Product Activation server. Once installed, the operating system can be reinstalled on that particular system via normal means without a product key, and the system's license will automatically be detected via online activation - in essence, the Microsoft Product Activation Server will remember the system's motherboard and give it the green light for product re-activation.[147][163][164] Due to installation issues with Upgrade Only installs, in November 2015, Windows 10 Version 1511 was released with additional activation mechanisms. This build treated Windows 7 and Windows 8/8.1 product keys as Windows 10 Product Keys, meaning they could be entered during installation to activate the free license, without the need to upgrade first to "activate" the hardware with Microsoft's activation servers.[165] For major Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs), Windows 8/8.1 and Windows 10 OEM Product Keys are embedded in the firmware of the motherboard and if the correct edition of Windows 10 is present on the installation media, they are automatically inputted during installation. Since the release of Windows 10 version 1709, Microsoft decided to release multi-edition installation media, to alleviate installation and product activation issues users experienced due to accidentally installing the wrong Edition of Windows 10. Despite the 1-year free upgrade offer having long expired, all activation mechanisms involving Windows 7 and Windows 8 keys still work with all subsequent builds of Windows 10, even Windows 7 and Windows 8/8.1 product keys that have never been used for a previous Windows 10 installation.
you still have OEM additions to play with separately i assume.
Thanks, Dougal. I’m sure that the license key is embedded in my xps. The issue is more about what, exactly, I am left with if I were to wipe Linux off the xps and make it Windows 10 only if and when I sell the computer. There are different ways to do this, even with the repair/reinstall USB drive I created. In a nutshell, here are the items I want to address:
- Factory install back to the version of Windows 10 that was on my Dell when I bought it vs the version I am on now with all the upgrades I have done
- Wiping my identity and data vs having to do that post-install
- Leaving it in a state where the buyer starts from scratch in setting up Windows on a brand new machine vs making a new user for the buyer that he/she can easily modify
I don't use Windows on either of my Dell's, so I don't know what utilities are available from Dell.
I use Clonezilla to image the computer hard drive, right after I have bought the computer. Then about every year i will re-image the computer hard drive and let Windows bring it up to date. Then I will image the drive again, save the image, and then use clonezilla re-image my Linux distro.
When I go to sell the computer I just create a generic admin user and then delete my user accounts.
Quote from: fox on August 21, 2019, 07:17:42 AM
I'm pretty sure that they were performance-optimizing drivers. But I'll say this for Dell. They included several utilities that made it easy to optimize performance and find and install firmware and updated Dell drivers, and make a repair/reinstall disk. (This on Windows 10 of course.) These must be relatively recent additions; I don't think those utilities were available with the 2015 xps 13 that I sold. Bill, does your xps have such utilities?
if I understand correctly these tutorials should do what you wish: I haven't used ASO, usually i hold the shift key while clicking restart from the power options on the bottom right of the desktop to get to the troubleshoot choice. this shoud get you back to square one like you just purchased the unit.
https://www.lifewire.com/reset-this-pc-2626216
https://www.lifewire.com/reset-this-pc-complete-walkthrough-2624538
typical dell laptop process to restore factory settings:
https://itstillworks.com/dell-laptop-back-factory-settings-6834322.html
Thanks for researching this, Dougal. All three of those links were helpful, and I included them with my retained internet sites on Pocket. But interestingly enough, none of them answered my first question, whether a restore would remove all the Windows updates. According to this (https://www.maketecheasier.com/what-system-restore-can-and-cannot-do-to-your-windows-system/) site, all of those updates would be removed. I suppose it isn't a big deal since if I did this, it would only be to sell the laptop to someone else. But it would still be nice to save the buyer all the hassle of having to reinstall those Windows updates, and I suspect that there is a way to:
- wipe off Linux
- remove grub and restore the boot process to normal Windows
- expand the formerly reduced Windows partition to give the whole drive back to Windows
- remove all personal files and make them unrecoverable
But if this entails a lot of work just to retain all those Windows updates, I won't bother. I'll just reset the PC when the time comes.
What I did to my Acer laptop before selling it wasn't so bad and it didn't require resetting the PC at all. I simply removed the Linux and grub partitions, used the Windows USB restore disk to repair the Windows boot, rebooted into Windows, expanded its partitions to cover the whole drive, removed a few programs I installed and couldn't give away, added a new administrative user, and then deleted my user account. All of this worked perfectly, but it was obvious which was the grub partition and this PC (originally with Windows 7) didn't have a recovery partition that had to be moved. After I tried same on my old Dell and couldn't boot it, I got spooked and started this thread.
I thought Bill's solution the best. Involves some work once a year. But seems efficient.
In my opinion it would be unkind to sell it in its factory delivery state. Sometimes the updates get tangled and slow. I've done this twice. Multi years of catching up. Days in both cases. Doubt I will ever do it again.
Windows does have an installed imaging app. Keep the image on an external drive. Useful if the hd fails. I keep these images updated once in awhile for all 3 win systems. They reinstall easily. Useful if system ever gets infected.
The problem with Bill's solution is that I didn't make an image of the computer's drive before. If I did it now, I would have the grub and Linux partitions included. Of course I could do that as a fail-safe, which would let me try to prepare this computer the way I did the Acer laptop.
Probably the most important thing I learned from this is to not do any of these things at the last minute. I did that in both cases before. Kind of like Harry, I didn't want to blow away an old friend (Ubuntu in my case) until I absolutely had to. If I had it to do again, I would prep the laptop for sale before I actually put it up for sale and just assume it will be sold.
I've never actually sold a computer. When all the tape and pins and work-arounds wont keep the old lady awake, no one would buy her anyway. I'd have to pay someone to cart her away. Must say though, all the usable parts get stored somewhere in the junk room labyrinth.
I can't figure any way that you could satisfy your requests and retain program/driver updates.. after reset you could reformat to subsequent iterations of win10 but not sure about the dell specific drivers/programs.... can you extract and place them on portable media to reinstall ?
The Dell drivers are not a big problem, as they are readily available on Dell's website and would also be part of any restore image. A complete reinstallation of Windows 10, Microsoft version would not include them, but they could be downloaded and installed.