This happened after I installed a firmware upgrade issued by Dell, but I don't know that the upgrade itself caused the problem entirely because I was previously having trouble installing Windows 10 upgrades. At any rate, since the upgrade, the Windows 10 grub item starts to boot but never completes it. The error message: "Process aborted due to an invalid return code". It reboots and tries to repair itself through Dell's Support Assist. The repair ends with the message: "Hard drive not installed". Trying to boot through the Dell repair disk on USB, it runs some operations that indicate that nothing is wrong that it can repair, but the repair fails anyway. It gave the option of reinstalling, which I also tried, but it failed, too. Through all this, the grub menu remains OK, and I can continue to boot into Ubuntu.
I'd like advice about where to go from here. Among my ideas:
- Erase the Windows partitions and start over with the Dell repair disk or the Dell restore image
- Replace the SSD and start over with either the repair disk or the Dell restore image
Also, I have a Windows 10 Professional disk from the university, but it would require a serial number, and I don't think my Dell windows serial number in the firmware would work because the Dell version is Windows Home. But I could try installing it just to see what happens and replace it later.
One problem with the Dell restore image is that there are 6 of them available for download for my machine. They are:
- 201YYA00_Win10x64ROW_home.iso
- VTRMA05_Win10x64ROW_home.iso
- 201YYA03_Win10x64ROW_home.iso
- 201YYA01_Win10x64ROW_home.iso
- VTRMA04_Win10x64ROW_home.iso
- 9663HA00_W10x64ROW_home(DL)_v3.iso
Any idea which one I should use, or does it even matter?
Maybe see if you can get some help from the Dell website, on what the difference is between the different available ISO's?
Welcome back from the great white north Mike. Interesting tales to relate I imagine.
Might it be possible to
1.Clone your Ubuntu, clear the hard drive, divide it into 2 halves, format ntfs both halves so Microsoft can see it clearly.
2. Install the Win10 that is usually available somewhere on the Microsoft site to the first half of the hard drive. It should recognize this is a legitimate Windows computer and allow you to do this. (I have done this several times.) This avoids Dell as an intermediary.
3. Do all the updates and make sure it works, maybe a few days.
4. Reinstall Ubuntu on the available space, formatting where needed, and reinstall grub.
5. Send me a thank you card.
Yikes! I think Buster's idea is sensible although it would entail probably a lot of reconfiguring Windows 10 back to the way you like it.
I'm not sure the Pro version would be accepted with digital authorization (i.e. not needing a serial number) as you mentioned but you can get the iso from Microsft as Buster says.
The real PITA is probably getting the updates again. If you go this route, don't try and go to Windows Updates to do them manually. Let Windows handle it. It knows what it needs and can probably do it with less effort (installing cumulative updates, like service packages, for example).
Better yet, banish the Windows beast from your Dell machine never to be seen again! Yeah, I know there is probably some app that you need running in Windows but what about just doing it in a VM in Linux? If you use Virtualbox, you can create snapshots and restore the last one should something go amiss again (and it probably will). I know this isn't your request but I'd lose my Linux geek license if I didn't at least suggest it. :)
Quote from: Jason on August 26, 2021, 07:07:30 PM
Yikes! I think Buster's idea is sensible although it would entail probably a lot of reconfiguring Windows 10 back to the way you like it.
I didn't do much configuring. I mainly have to reinstall the tax program and MS Office.
Quote from: Jason on August 26, 2021, 07:07:30 PM
The real PITA is probably getting the updates again. If you go this route, don't try and go to Windows Updates to do them manually. Let Windows handle it. It knows what it needs and can probably do it with less effort (installing cumulative updates, like service packages, for example).
Not sure what you mean here. How would I get the Windows updates if I didn't go to Windows Updates? And I would want the security updates. There is also the question of Dell drivers. Should I ignore them and just stick with the ones Windows installs?
Quote from: Jason on August 26, 2021, 07:07:30 PM
Better yet, banish the Windows beast from your Dell machine never to be seen again! Yeah, I know there is probably some app that you need running in Windows but what about just doing it in a VM in Linux? If you use Virtualbox, you can create snapshots and restore the last one should something go amiss again (and it probably will). I know this isn't your request but I'd lose my Linux geek license if I didn't at least suggest it. :)
I did consider this. But even assuming that my tax software would run in a VM, if I installed Windows 10 in the VM, would it be registered as a result of the internal Dell digital authorization? If not, I don't have a copy of Windows 10 to register; I would have to buy one.
The irony is that a laptop is becoming less and less useful to me. I used to need it in conferences and I used it to give lectures, but I don't attend conferences anymore and I found that my iPad is better for lectures than a laptop. In fact the only use I've made of it in the last two years is for running the tax software, which is also available for the Mac. I may end up selling it soon and of course if I do that, it needs Windows only on it. Having taken Buster's idea to make a Windows install disk and knowing that it would be registered without needing a serial number, I am at least ready to set it back to normal if I decide to sell it.
OK, so here is what I did. I deleted all ntfs partitions on the xps and then added one (ntfs) large enough to hold what I need and then some. Next I ran the Microsoft version of the Windows 10 installer and put Windows on the ntfs partition I created. It worked and I have Windows again. Next I added the Dell SupportAssist application, ran it and downloaded the Dell driver updates. I rebooted and noticed that the Windows bootloader has two Windows options for boot, one of which it the correct one and the other doesn't work. I'll have to look into that later. Also, it looks like the grub bootloader that I left on the computer is not working, so it boots right into Windows. That should be an easy fix, as a reboot into the Windows bootloader showed that my Ubuntu partition is fine and works when I boot from it. The grub menu is displayed then so it's still there. While Ubuntu boots up OK from it, Windows doesn't, so there is an error there. (Could it have to do with not erasing one or both of the small partitions at the front end of the drive?)
One of the small partitions is an EFI system partition and the other a Microsoft reserved partition with an unknown file system. Gparted puts a warning flag on it with the following explanation:
"Unable to detect file system! Possible reasons are:
- The file system is damaged
- The file system is unknown to gparted
- There is no file system available (unformatted)
- The device entry /dev/nvme0n1p2 is missing"
Does this mean anything to you? I can't mount or read what's in it.
Checking for Windows updates, there were a few but the biggest ones are the July and August cumulative updates. I'll run them and see what happens. These were ones that wouldn't install previously.
Quote from: fox on August 27, 2021, 07:49:06 AM
Not sure what you mean here. How would I get the Windows updates if I didn't go to Windows Updates? And I would want the security updates. There is also the question of Dell drivers. Should I ignore them and just stick with the ones Windows installs?
You don't need to manually go to Windows Updates. It gets them automatically in the background, whether you want them or not. There are ways around that. If I remember you can postpone feature updates in Home but security updates always come down the pipe. Running Windows Update may get you some things faster but it's not needed especially not for the casual use you describe. Although, if you're hardly ever in Windows, it might be still a good idea to do it manually so you can control when it happens instead of being forced into it. In that case, you'd probably want to turn automatic updates off. Either rest assured you're getting those security updates.
With drivers, the ones Windows provides (which come through the manufacturer often) are usually good enough but you might have some specific features that Dell provides. Dell might have its own Dell update program for this. It is likely on their support pages for your model.
Quote from: fox on August 27, 2021, 07:49:06 AM
I did consider this. But even assuming that my tax software would run in a VM, if I installed Windows 10 in the VM, would it be registered as a result of the internal Dell digital authorization? If not, I don't have a copy of Windows 10 to register; I would have to buy one.
No, it wouldn't read the hardware as being the same so it wouldn't get registered. I haven't tried it but I believe Buster mentioned that you can use Windows 10 quite fine without registering it. It nags you sometimes and puts up a little banner but it won't stop working. Perhaps Buster will chime in about this. Being a teacher I bet a Windows license would be pretty cheap though. Charities get them for under $20, $10 last time I checked.
I would gladly pay $10 or $20 for a legit Windows license, but I don't have that option through Trent. If someone can tell me how to get it legitimately for that price, please post.
I'm stuck at a decision point. I can boot either Windows or Ubuntu, but from different menus in that the grub menu won't boot Windows. To boot up Windows, I have to start up the Windows Boot manager and boot Windows from it. Not a big deal but not how it should work.
Possible things to try to fix it:
(1) Delete the small MS reserved partition and see what happens
(2) Start all over again with the installation, this time erasing the EFI system partition and the MS reserved partition
(3) Start all over again with the installation, this time erasing the whole disk, formatting it into 2 parts (one for Ubuntu) and installing Windows on the first part.
(4) ????
I know that something is still basically wrong because even in the Windows Boot Manager it still refers to another Windows installation that isn't the one I just performed. Could this be something in the small MS reserved partition? Do any of you dual booters have this partition on your computers?
Quote from: fox on August 27, 2021, 03:58:36 PM
I would gladly pay $10 or $20 for a legit Windows license, but I don't have that option through Trent. If someone can tell me how to get it legitimately for that price, please post.
I did some search and apparently, there is a discounted rate for faculty (https://onthehub.com/windows-10-education/#Faculty) but Trent doesn't appear to offer it. Choose the Faculty button and enter the form to see what I mean. It says you might still be able to get one at the general ehub store but I couldn't find it.
What Buster said about downloading it (in another post somewhere is true) - you can download it free and not register it. I don't think you're breaking any laws here. It's freely available on their website. You just lose some functionality, basically just changing your background or some other appearance stuff. You get that "Activate Windows" message in the lower right. It's not intrusive.
Other ways here (https://beebom.com/get-windows-10-key-free-cheap/) with #1 having been just mentioned.
Have you tried the program that is available for Ubuntu that will fix grub automatically? You've mentioned it to me in the past. I think it's called Boot Repair or something. I've used it a few times when I added or remove a partition and stuff went awry.
I'm not sure about the Microsoft reserved partition. How big is it? If it's in the GB (perhaps 20-40 GB) range, it's probably the restore partition that comes with those typical machines. That's why it'd be hidden. So you don't accidentally delete it.
Quote from: Jason on August 27, 2021, 04:32:01 PM
Have you tried the program that is available for Ubuntu that will fix grub automatically? You've mentioned it to me in the past. I think it's called Boot Repair or something. I've used it a few times when I added or remove a partition and stuff went awry.
This deactivated my Grub Customizer and made it so the Windows bootloader doesn't work!
Quote from: Jason on August 27, 2021, 04:32:01 PM
I'm not sure about the Microsoft reserved partition. How big is it? If it's in the GB (perhaps 20-40 GB) range, it's probably the restore partition that comes with those typical machines. That's why it'd be hidden. So you don't accidentally delete it.
I'm pretty sure that's not what it is. I had two such larger partitions at the end of the drive and deleted them both. I don't remember how gparted identified them, but I remember that it identified the format as ntfs. This one must be a small partition, based on the gparted visual display of the partitions - it looks as small as the EFI partition.
I'm looking at it from the Windows side in Disk Management. The partition doesn't even show up. I'm thinking more and more that this is the cause, but I realize that if I delete it, I might have to start over. At least I now know that this is a viable option.
Update - I'm not out of the woods yet. I had to reinstall Windows after boot-repair borked the Windows bootloader and grub. (Never had that happen before.) This time I started by deleting all partitions except the Ubuntu one and a small empty fat32 partition at the beginning of the drive, and leaving an ntfs partition open for the Windows reinstallation. After reinstalling Windows, it booted OK, but without grub installed, Ubuntu wouldn't boot. Interesting that the Windows bootloader saw Ubuntu, but was unable to boot it.
I tried unsuccessfully to install grub from a live USB, so the next thing I did was install another version of Ubuntu from scratch. This brought back grub and made it possible to boot up the old and new Ubuntu partitions, but once again, grub was unable to boot the Windows partition even though it was listed there. (I can still boot Windows by selecting it from the BIOS menu.)
I'm baffled as to why, all of a sudden, grub can't boot Windows. The only clue I have is that when I try, Windows reports that it can't find the hard drive. I've tried googling the grub problem and the only suggestion it makes is that the mechanism of booting might be different between Linux and Windows (BIOS vs UEFI). Thus far I haven't been able to address this, but it was also suggested that other bootloaders would work better.
The alternatives I am considering for my next move are:
- delete all Ubuntu partitions and reinstall Ubuntu from a live USB
- set up a dual boot menu from the Windows bootloader using Easy BCD
- set up a dual boot menu using Refind (the bootloader I use on my Macs)
If anyone has an idea of how to get Windows booting from the grub menu, I'm all ears!
I installed EasyBCD and it gives me the following message:
"EasyBCD has detected that your machine is currently booting in EFI mode. Due to limitations set by Microsoft, many of EasyBCD's multi-booting features cannot be used in EFI and have been disabled."
It appears that among what has been disabled is the ability to boot Linux distros, as the tab showing other OSes doesn't show on my Dell.
I next tried installing Refind, and it produces a startup menu with the various boot options, including Windows. However, Windows won't successfully boot from this.
What I can't understand is what changed because originally I had no problem booting either Windows or Ubuntu from the grub menu I had before the trouble started.
Can you turn off EFI? I'm not that familiar with it; maybe I'm just thinking of Secure boot.
Where is the tab are you talking about that isn't showing other OSes? Do you mean in EasyBCD?
It might be easiest to clone the Ubuntu partition and re-install Windows fresh as Buster suggested. It'd probably be less time than trying to hunt down solutions to this problem.
Quote from: Jason on August 28, 2021, 12:52:25 PM
Can you turn off EFI? I'm not that familiar with it; maybe I'm just thinking of Secure boot.
I don't know how to turn off EFI, but Secure boot is off.
Quote from: Jason on August 28, 2021, 12:52:25 PM
Where is the tab are you talking about that isn't showing other OSes? Do you mean in EasyBCD?
Yes, in EasyBCD
Quote from: Jason on August 28, 2021, 12:52:25 PM
It might be easiest to clone the Ubuntu partition and re-install Windows fresh as Buster suggested. It'd probably be less time than trying to hunt down solutions to this problem.
I'm thinking same.
It just occurred to me that my Dell XPS Windows probably needs to do an update. I will boot into the Windows OS and see if it causes any problem for me, after the Win update, to boot into my MXLinux.
Oops, I just remembered that I got rid of Windows OS on my Dell XPS and only have MXLinux, on it.
I would have to get the Image I made of the XPS, when it had Win 10 on it. :-(
Well I started over again (3rd try), erased the SSD, installed Windows 10, used its disk manager to make space for Ubuntu, and then installed Ubuntu from a live USB using the install alongside Windows option. Same result - Windows won't boot from the grub menu, but I can get either Windows or Ubuntu to boot by selecting the option I want after hitting the F12 key at startup. I spent hours trying to find a solution, but nothing that was suggested worked. Also, I found several other Ubuntu users posting about the same problem. I'm not a happy camper. I don't know whose fault this is - Dell, Microsoft and/or Canonical/Ubuntu. I wasted three days on this and don't have a lot to show for this time. If I had known this, I would never have bought a Dell xps and I'm still perplexed as to why I have this problem now.
A Mac laptop is starting to look more attractive, if I need a laptop at all.
Could also be the latest little update for grub has a glitch and will be sorted out over the next week or so. Grub is usually the key player with dual boots.
maybe try a Win 11 install, just for the heck of it. it apparrently is available as a download or might even be an optiom in your win 10 update.
I guess you're well past the date to get free support from Dell? Did you have the issue right away with Windows or was it when you applied all the updates? My guess is that Microsoft messed up something since that seems to be when you noted the problem. I actually wish I had Windows on this laptop right now so I could help! Maybe just use your ad hoc solution for now and see if the next quality update (which includes security fixes but not feature upgrades) fixes the problem.
The problem occurred right after I did a firmware update on the laptop; I only realized that this morning. Apparently I can downgrade the firmware on a Dell laptop; I might try that this morning. Even if not, if a firmware update caused the problem, another firmware update might fix it.
As you can tell from the title of my post, I actually thought that the Windows installation itself was borked. That was unfortunate because the things I did afterward caused me to lose some files (nothing serious) but more importantly, to start over from scratch. In retrospect, I'm pretty sure that all that was broken was the grub boot, as the error messages I got during a Windows boot from grub are the same now as they were before.
With another night of sleep behind me, I'm not as upset as I was. I can still boot into both systems; it's just kludgy to have to change the boot from the default to the other system by going to the BIOS. And I learned a lot about Windows repair and bootloaders by all my efforts to solve the problem.
Assuming that the problem hasn't gone away by Monday night, I would like to bring my laptop to our outdoor MUG and have you and Bill look at the BIOS settings. If Bill would bring his xps, we can compare his settings with mine.
Oh and yes, I am well past the free support date. The model (9365) came out in 2017 and I bought it in 2018.
Sure, I will make a note to myself, to bring my XPS.
Quote from: ssfc72 on August 29, 2021, 12:28:44 AM
maybe try a Win 11 install, just for the heck of it. it apparently is available as a download or might even be an option in your win 10 update.
I did a Windows 11 install alongside Windows 10. It didn't change anything as far as booting is concerned. I can boot into it or Windows 10 from the Windows bootloader and Ubuntu through the Grub bootloader. I can make either one as the default in BIOS, and boot the other by selecting it after pressing the F12 key.
On my Dell XPS, in thr BIOS, i have Legacy boot on and EFI OFF.
Interesting. Is your drive an NVME SSD or a SATA SSD, Bill? I didn't think a NVME drive could boot in legacy mode.
I saw the following YouTube video (https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=turn+on+legacy+boot+windows+10&iax=videos&ia=videos&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dm2qWgCtA65w), which shows how to change to legacy mode, but I have no idea what kind of drive this guy was using, and his BIOS is text-based, and different from mine, which is graphic-based.
My Dell XPS is an M2 SSD.
m2 is the form factor (how it's attached). The question is whether the drive uses the newer, faster nvme protocol, or is a SATA ssd. I'm not sure how you find this information, but in Windows settings, under Device Manager/Storage Controllers, I have listed a "Standard NVM Express Controller". I'm guessing that wouldn't be there if NVME wasn't supported, though I think you could install a m2.SATA drive in that slot.
Anyway, bring your Dell along tonight.
Fox, I am just grasping at straws here, for a way to solve your Windows boot problem.
Last evening you were able to boot from a different menu, into Win 10 or 11 and your Dell XPS was running on battery.
Maybe try running on battery at your home, instead of being powered by the power adapter, and see if you can still boot from a menu, into Win 10 or 11?
Quote from: fox on August 30, 2021, 04:25:50 PM
Interesting. Is your drive an NVME SSD or a SATA SSD, Bill? I didn't think a NVME drive could boot in legacy mode.
There are drives now that won't boot in legacy mode? That makes me sad. :( What is the world coming to!!?!?!
Quote from: ssfc72 on August 31, 2021, 09:44:29 AM
Fox, I am just grasping at straws here, for a way to solve your Windows boot problem.
Last evening you were able to boot from a different menu, into Win 10 or 11 and your Dell XPS was running on battery.
Maybe try running on battery at your home, instead of being powered by the power adapter, and see if you can still boot from a menu, into Win 10 or 11?
Whatever I did yesterday, I can't duplicate today, and I tried running on battery. What was weird yesterday was that when the Windows menu started, I got the more graphical Windows startup menu instead of the text-based BCDboot menu. I don't know what I did to get that, but it only happened once and after that I was able to boot Windows from the grub menu - again only once. Go figure!
Quote from: Jason on August 31, 2021, 10:10:12 AM
There are drives now that won't boot in legacy mode? That makes me sad. :( What is the world coming to!!?!?!
Apparently I was wrong. Bill has a NVME SSD in his Dell xps 13, and it boots in legacy mode. I think that's the key here - to get Windows and Ubuntu booting in legacy mode. I think if I could do that, the grub menu would start up Windows once again.
I think I may have found the answer and if this is correct, it's not a good thing for dual booters on Dell computers. According to this post (https://www.dell.com/community/Windows-10/missing-option-quot-Enable-Legacy-Option-ROMs-quot-in-BIOS-setup/td-p/7381209):
QuoteClass 3 Bios DOES NOT HAVE CSM and DOES NOT ALLOW windows XP/VISTA/7/8 or any 32 Bit software to be installed.
Does not Support GRUB or MSDOS or many thousands of versions of Linux or OS2 etc.
These systems past Skylake from 2016 are 64 bit only, Windows 10 only, UEFI only and GPT only. There is no legacy or CSM or MBR booting EVER.
and
QuoteIntel Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) mechanism with legacy CSM support as an additional option. Intel intends to remove legacy BIOS CSM support from UEFI by Jan 2020. This is also when WINDOWS 7 is totally end of life.
If true, Bill's xps might be Skylake or before, and mine might be after. Or alternatively, grub booting of Windows was supported in BIOS until the firmware update I did. Bill is more conservative about applying firmware updates, whereas I just apply them as they become available.
I find that comment very confusing. I'm not sure if the author is saying that 32-bit software isn't supported and neither is legacy booting or just that what he refers to applies to is only 32-bit OSes/software. In any case, where you got the firmware update should be a download for a previous or original version that you can restore to it.
I agree with Bill's opinion here - don't apply every firmware update that comes out. You're just asking for trouble. The exception is if the firmware update specifically addresses an issue you're having. Firmware is like the foundation of your house on a device. Updating it as you would software can introduce a whole world of pain, and not just what you've experienced. Should you make a slight mistake, you could brick your whole PC. Apply it when you need to; you don't have to have the latest firmware version.
Here's an article supporting the more conservative approach to updating firmware on devices:
"Whenever you see a firmware update for whatever electronic device youââ,¬â,,¢re using, always read the release notes thoroughly. This documentation is always provided and is usually on the same page where the download is, or as a PDF or some other web page describing whatââ,¬â,,¢s in that particular version. If you see nothing in there that fixes anything or adds in features, donââ,¬â,,¢t apply it, because having an update applied that breaks your stuff will ruin your day real quick. Every time it happens itââ,¬â,,¢s money wasted that you have to spend all over again." (Source: TechJunkie, "When should you update your firmware? (https://www.techjunkie.com/when-should-you-update-your-firmware/)")
As King would have said had he been a computer tech/geek today: "A firmware update if necessary, but not necessarily a firmware update." :)
Hmm. Wish I had known that a few weeks ago. One of the reasons I applied it was because I was having trouble installing some of the Windows updates, but I never read the firmware description to know whether it addressed this. I had always figured that one should always update firmware in the same way as security updates.
So the question is whether I should try to downgrade my firmware, which I think I can on a Dell computer. Is there any potential downside to that?
I believe it's similar reasoning. To decide on a firmware update you look at its release notes to see if fixes a problem, usually with hardware. If it does, you decide if the problem you're having is tolerable because you may make the problem worse. If it's not tolerable, then you update it.
So now that you're considering restoring the original firmware, there are similar considerations. Check the release notes. Will it fix a problem or in this case did it introduce a problem? Can you tolerate the problem? If not, instead of downgrading, leave it alone. Otherwise, restore the firmware.
I can't remember if the firmware update was what caused your dual-boot issues or whether it was before that. If you can wait until later, I'll re-read your posts and see if I can make a suggestion.
The dual boot issue occurred right after a firmware update. As I recall, I was running a Dell diagnostic tool and it noted that there were about 10 updates available, including the firmware. When I allowed it to install the updates, something failed, so I rebooted and installed the firmware update only. After that, I tried rebooting from the grub menu and that's when I discovered the problem. The reason I ran the Dell diagnostic tool was because a regular Windows update wouldn't install. I figured that maybe one of the Dell updates would fix the problem. It never occurred to me to read what changes the firmware update would make.
In summary, I can't say for sure that the firmware update caused the problem of booting Windows from the grub menu, only that the problem occurred right after the Dell firmware update was administered.
I went to the Dell site and looked at the description for the firmware update (see attached). Earlier firmware versions are available on Dell's site.
Note that I actually bought a new (larger capacity) NVME SSD and am currently using it. There was nothing wrong with the older one other than it wouldn't boot Windows from the grub menu, even after a Windows reinstallation. I'm wondering what would happen if I put the old one back in, wipe it, and install Windows from scratch with the Dell image for my laptop instead of the Windows 10 image. Would it reinstall the old firmware along with that older image?
It mentions that when a firmware update with security updates is applied, you lost the ability to restore a previous version so that pretty much removes any decision on your part. But to be sure, you should look at the previous version you had.
But to answer your question anywhere, the firmware is in a chip on the motherboard. It's entirely separate from any peripherals like a drive so restoring a previous Dell drive image wouldn't put back the old firmware version. While there would be hardware support in that image for drivers, it doesn't affect the firmware which has support for hardware at a much more basic level.
On a positive note, security vulnerabilities are a good reason to apply firmware updates.
Quote from: Jason on September 02, 2021, 12:58:03 PM
It mentions that when a firmware update with security updates is applied, you lost the ability to restore a previous version so that pretty much removes any decision on your part. But to be sure, you should look at the previous version you had.
....
I didn't take it quite that way. What it says is once the firmware is upgraded to version 2.2 or later (which mine is), you can't downgrade it to version 2.1.2 or earlier. Looking on Dell's website for older firmware, there looks to be 11 firmware versions between my current version (2.16.2) and version 2.1.2, including the previous one: 2.15.0. The earliest firmware version shown for my model is 2.2.
-----
Your comment about the firmware being on a chip rather than the software does suggest that installing an earlier Dell installation image won't change anything substantially. Where it could potentially help is if a firmware downgrade restores the grub Windows boot but I'm still having problems with Windows updates. Even there, the problem looks less important given that an official version of Windows 11 will be available later this fall (October?).
Fox, I assume you read in the Lancet Journal about the professor who disappeared for 3 days and he was finally found in the attic singing to himself and marking every surface with the letters GRUB. He was sedated and apparently a full recovery is expected.
About six years ago I was visited by an angel of the Lord, who spoke and said, "Be not afraid my little one. The Devil's minion Grub will never entrap thee. Get thee to a market of virtue and purchase a superior computer. I command thee never to co-mingle with the temptress Grub. Install your Linux friends in Virtual, for Virtual is virtuous, and will never lead you to evil and despair. Hearken to my words."
And of course, I obeyed. Who is stupid enough to ignore an angel?
Quote from: buster on September 02, 2021, 02:17:19 PM
Install your Linux friends in Virtual, for Virtual is virtuous, and will never lead you to evil and despair. Hearken to my words."
A Windows update started this mess so, if anything, Fox would be better to run Windows in a VM, not the other way around. :)
"Fox would be better to run Windows in a VM, not the other way around. "
Very good point. However, I've never managed to find a way to put a legitimate Win10 in virtual. And if you do buy a license, there's a good chance it will apply only to that virtual machine and be non-transferable. A number of people have asked me this.
Second, the laptop has a Win10 license already. Easy to start here.
Third, and I may be mistaken here, but wasn't the firmware update handled by Dell, rather than Microsoft?
The firmware update is handled by Dell, not Microsoft.
The alternative VM perspectives are interesting, but my response to either is influenced by my use of this particular computer and would in no way apply to my main computer. I don't use a laptop much anymore - too small for my eyes, and the original use I bought it for is mostly rendered irrelevant by my retirement. Previously, the laptop was an important work tool; I took it to conferences to do presentations and work with colleagues, and I used it for lectures. I also took it on holiday trips. Now I take an iPad on holiday trips and I used that iPad for lectures when I last gave them in person (as opposed to Zoom) in 2019. Now this very nice laptop sits on my desk almost unused. I spend more time updating the Windows and Ubuntu software on it than I spend using it. It's sad because this is a really good, well thought-out laptop (except for the placement of the webcam). I could sell it, but PCs get a fishcake once they're a few years old. Not worth doing even if I don't use it much.
If I had a desktop PC (vs a Mac), I would sooner put Windows in a VM because Ubuntu would be my regular system. On this laptop, the only software I depend on at certain times of year is a tax program that doesn't run on Linux. In other words, I have rarely used Linux on this laptop since I retired. Still I'm mainly a Linux user; that's what I use every day on my desktop. So I feel that I have to have Linux on the laptop. Given this situation and the fact that my copy of Windows is registered on this laptop, if I had to choose between a Linux VM on Windows or a Windows VM on Linux, I would choose the former. But I see no reason to choose either.
Because grub won't boot Windows now, I have the default boot set to Windows. It's still easy enough to boot into Linux; boot with the F12 key and choose to boot Ubuntu.
Quote from: buster on September 02, 2021, 05:01:25 PM
Third, and I may be mistaken here, but wasn't the firmware update handled by Dell, rather than Microsoft?
I believe you're mistaken. Fox's problem *started* with a Windows update. The name of the topic is "Windows borked on my dual boot Dell xps". The firmware issue was an attempt to see if an update to it fixed the Microsoft issue.
Regarding the license transfer, yes it wouldn't go to a virtual machine but I believe you mentioned before that it's not a big deal anyway. Something about the only thing you can't do is change its appearance and you get that message in the corner that it's not registered.
In any case, I wasn't actually suggesting that Fox install Windows on a virtual machine on a Linux install - just that your argument was flawed.
If you like, Fox, I can make use of your unused laptop. ;) I won't even charge you for taking care of that problem!
Btw, Buster, I found your post otherwise entertaining. I didn't know the Lord
still came to you in dreams. You should probably get that checked that out. Did you
eat have wine before bed? Maybe that's why.
That might have been funnier if I had asked what I meant, "Did you have wine before bed?" :) Or maybe it wouldn't have been.
I was wondering if you could install grub on a USB stick and set that as the default to boot from. I see to recall some utility online called multi-boot or something. But maybe it was just a for booting distros from within that drive. If it works, it's a bit of a kludge but might be easier than having to hit F12 repeatedly to get the BIOS/UEFI boot menu.
In this case, I wouldn't consider it better than hitting the F12 key. Also, I don't have to hit the F12 key at all if I want the first in line in the BIOS menu to boot. So I can set it to boot either Windows or Ubuntu (the grub menu) first. The nice thing about the F12 menu (as opposed to F2) is I can boot whichever one I select from that without permanently changing the boot order.