Running a Virtual Linux Machine. Which is best, Hyper-v, or VMware? And Easiest.

[buster]

So with my Win11 Pro I think I have the opportunity to use Hyper-v. Is there any advantage, and is the learning curve steep?

Anyone on the forums know?

[Jason]

It doesn't appear to have a performance difference from other VM software. It's their version. The wiki suggests software using 3D might not work well.
I've never tried it but it doesn't look any more difficult than VMware or Virtualbox from the MS instructions:

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/virtualization/hyper-v-on-windows/quick-start/create-virtual-machine

You might able to load VMs created by other VM software. It has support for .vhd files.

You've been able to use Hyper-V since Windows 10 as long as your hardware supports it. But versions earlier than 11 probably didn't have it pre-installed.

Let us know how it goes if you try it. There isn't a Linux version but you intend to use Windows as the host, correct?

[cod3poet]

Hyper-v built in works a treat I have been running "client hyper-v" since windows 8.1 was released. I still to this day run in on all my machines, There is also an option of WSL if you are looking at poking at some linux commandline stuff or even bridging into what is called WSLg (which is Windows subsystem for Linux with Graphics).

Ubuntu 24.04 is supported and runs a treat as a Guest VM.

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[buster]

"Hyper-v built in works a treat I have been running "client hyper-v" since windows 8.1 was released. I still to this day run in on all my machines"

Thanks codfish. Just out of interest the latest free release from VMWare is Pro. So I have two good choices.

I thought you had moved to Iceland or Norway. Your posts have been few and far between.

[Jason]

I thought you had moved to Iceland or Norway. Your posts have been few and far between.

Calling him codfish probably won't help. Don't scare him away, Buster! I'm guessing it's more that, unlike most of us, he has a life: a kid. And let's face it, his kid is probably smarter than us.

Btw, codepoet, I liked your post. I can't subscribe (yet). Do you have a YouTube channel?

[Jason]

Just out of interest the latest free release from VMWare is Pro. So I have two good choices.

That statement is confusing. Are you saying that VMWare Pro is going free or discontinuing the free version?

Don't forget there's a third choice: bare metal. 

[cod3poet]

The entire industry has turned on it's head and is now "eeek Vmware" and running off to live in Norway themselves.

Homelab is primarily proxmox, or hyper-v, or straight KVM enabled by virt-manager under linux. Even virtualization on mac silicon is powered by KVM code. I use UTM.

Links as follows
Hyper-V windows 11 -- https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/educator-developer-blog/step-by-step-enabling-hyper-v-for-use-on-windows-11/ba-p/3745905
Proxmox - https://www.proxmox.com/en/
https://mac.getutm.app/ - Virtualization for apple silicon that I use on my m1 Macbook for work


I am as we speak installing a legacy Centos 7 image in Hyper-v because I have a code migration project that I am working on.

[fox]

I have a 2019 Intel iMac. It is set up as a dual boot - Ubuntu 24.04 and MacOS. I mostly run Ubuntu but I occasionally need to boot into the Mac OS for something. Is it possible to virualize the Mac OS on Ubuntu with UTM and run the Mac at near-native speed? That would be more convenient than dual booting.

[cod3poet]

*blink blink* I think you are always better off virtualizing linux on native os, on native hardware.

UTM can virtualize mac on mac, but does not have an ubuntu port and is macos specific.

Otherwise native Ubuntu with a less performant and Janky Choppy Slow install of Macos is possible (and illegal) under ubuntu but I would strongly caution against going down that rabbit hole.

"No workaround will ever truly replace the correct tool and the correct application of force." - Me

[Jason]

I have a 2019 Intel iMac. It is set up as a dual boot - Ubuntu 24.04 and MacOS. I mostly run Ubuntu but I occasionally need to boot into the Mac OS for something. Is it possible to virualize the Mac OS on Ubuntu with UTM and run the Mac at near-native speed? That would be more convenient than dual booting.

Hackintosh might work but that might open up another can of worms.

[fox]

Hackintosh might work but that might open up another can of worms.

It wouldn't be a Hackintosh because the computer is a Mac.

[Jason]

It wouldn't be a Hackintosh because the computer is a Mac.

But a VM doesn't see the host. It sees the emulated environment provided. I usually see that environment as a PC (which isn't the same as the PC host). That's why I thought maybe a Hackintosh within the VM would work. But I'm shooting in the dark as I don't know much about UTM or Hackintosh. As much as it shames me to say if you want to avoid dual-booting, run a Linux guest VM within Mac OS. Hey, at least you're still using Linux.

My brain hurts. 

[fox]

Hackintosh is term that specifically refers to running the Mac OS on a PC computer. One can run a virtual machine with the Mac OS on a Mac; it's easy to do that if you run it with the Mac OS as host. Many years ago, I figured out how to run a virtual Mac OS on a Mac running Ubuntu. I can't remember whether it was on VMware or VirtualBox, but I used a hack that was posted on the Insanely Mac website. It worked, but it was slow, and I only did it for fun.

I asked about this on this thread because I thought maybe cod3poet found a better way to do it using Hyper-V. Apparently not. As for whether I would use Linux as a VM with the Mac OS as host, sure that's easy to do, but I wouldn't feel good about it. I would feel like I gave up. My needs for the Mac OS are minimal, but there are a few things I still use it for. I have an iPhone, and it would be useful to access iMessage on my computer without having to boot into the Mac OS. Sure I can use the phone itself, but I have always found it easier to read and respond to messages on a device with a larger display and a keyboard.

The other main annoyance with using Linux continues to be Microsoft Office, particularly Word and Excel. I try using them as little as possible in favour of LibreOffice, but I still do manuscript reviews and other collaborative work where the MS Track Changes are important. MS Office 2010 runs pretty well on Linux using Crossover and I have a few legal copies of Office 2010, but now I'm finding that every time I upgrade Crossover, I have to re-register the Office software with Microsoft. This is a pain in the butt when it does work, and it doesn't always. As a result, I am now using an unregistered copy on two of my installations.

These are relatively minor annoyances, and not enough to get me off of Ubuntu as my main OS.

[Jason]

Hackintosh is term that specifically refers to running the Mac OS on a PC computer.

I realize that. However, a VM client typically emulates a PC environment (the machine doesn't know that it's not a PC). So I thought it could be a way to get the Mac OS as a VM on a Linux host. But Hyper-V does it a different way, I believe. I don't think it emulates a PC environment. It uses the existing OS environment but in isolation. You could use the Mac alongside a PC with Linux and use a KVM to avoid rebooting. That's what I was looking at.

[cod3poet]

To over simplify, Hyper-v turns the host AND The guest os(es) into virtual machines, The host os is a virtualized environment with direct hardware access, and further guest os(es) are 100% virtual, although later versions allow you to do some hardware passthrough. The have your cake and eat it too is tough. Mostly because of the limitations of the host hardware in this situation.

I use a Mac for work, but 70% of the productive stuff that I do is done from a windows machine I remote into FROM the Mac, and the other is 20% linux VM / Linux tools through homebrew. And the rest is Email and Chat and some browsing in 1 of 7 profiles in google chrome.

Yes a perfect world would be a performant MacOS under virtualization probably running Qemu/KVM with GPU passthrough which is only for recent and expensive video cards to get the buttery smooth mac like performance.

Secondly the lock-in for iMessage is purely intentional. Otherwise KDE would have been all over that with an app to allow you to read your messages in linux a decade ago!

In my hybrid world, I have keyboard and mouse connected to my laptop via usb-c Dock, that also does 4k60 output to a 43 inch TV. Then I use Synergy as a virtual KVM over my home network to the mac which is to the right of the TV. One keyboard and mouse, and unlimited operating systems. Just move the mouse to the far left of my windows machine MAC, far right of Mac and it's Windows with WSL2 and Arch! And for bonus nerd points, I have a Moonlight Game streaming connection setup to yet another box running Windows 11 that I can connect to from either machine.

The only difference is I am applying the right hardware to the right workloads.