Income Tax software programs for 2021 tax year

[Jason]

So, no retirement for me.  I have to work until death.  Might as well, since I'm a workaholic.  But, there is difference between "have to" vs "want to".

Are you close to retirement, William? You looked pretty young last I checked so should have lots more years to contribute to RRSPs. If you'll only be getting pension from the government, did you also add in OAS and possibly GIS to that amount. If you only get the average income that Canadians get from CPP, you'll get (per month):

$640 CPP
$648 OAS
$969 GIS

$2 258 total

Of course, how much CPP you get depends on how much you've paid into it by the # of years and your income. OAS is based on your CPP income (and if you're married, if/how much your spouse gets in OAS) and GIS is a top-up if the total of CPP and OAS are too low. I'm using the calculator online from  Service Canada. I used this page to find out how much GIS would top-up CPP and OAS. It's not much but certainly enough for an apartment in a smaller city like Peterborough, utilities and groceries and spending money. One-bedroom apartments without utilities here are about $1000/month.

So you shouldn't have to work after 65 even if you don't have RRSPs but I expect you have quite a few decades before you retire, no?

[William]

Thanks for the research, Jason.  That total doesn't cover my expenses, even if I moved to Peterborough.  Oh, after retiring, you mean... hmm, still not enough.

[buster]

"hmm, still not enough."

I agree William. You can exist, but not really live. Car? Car insurance? Gas? Good food in the frig? Having friends over? Alcohol? Any kind of travel where you must stay on a motel and eat in a restaurant?

And the apartment rent is a low estimate. I know what my grandkids have to pay. The small bungalows on our street are selling for over $800,000! Ridiculous. Rent will follow the skyrocketing trend.

" Might as well, since I'm a workaholic."

Very strange idea to me. I was ready to retire in my early 20's. Have lots to do. Unfortunately I like to eat, and so did my family. If you like to work you should never give it up until they drag you out of the building.

Tough situation William. Out of curiosity, how many brothers and sisters do you have?

[Jason]

$2200/month is twice what a person on a disability who can't work lives on in Ontario. I just want to let that sink in. And minimum wage is $2500/month in Ontario which is what 50% of Peterborians (right word?) live on (or less).

I know this will shock everyone everyone but you don't NEED a car. In most cases, you can take a cab, rideshare, train, bus, etc. Nobody wants to do that but you can. A car is not a necessity but it certainly makes life easier (I imagine, anyway). If you need it to get work and/or live outside a city, that's different. In some major metropolises like New York City and Toronto, a lot of people don't even have a car and having one is just more of a pain. Parking can cost more than rent there (go rent control!). Car owners have convinced themselves they need a car when really they mean life would be harder without one. You'd likely have a lot more money without a car!

About the rent rate though, I did a bit of searching and you're correct, Buster, that is a low-ball estimate. The CMHC puts the average rent for a 1 bedroom in Peterborough at $1211/month. So I'll give you that one.

[Jason]

William: On a personal note, I just wanted to say that you're one of the smartest people I know. You could be doing software development or working in cybersecurity and make $80-120,000 per year or more! You might need a bit more education (not sure of your background) or certifications but you're as smart as I wish I was. Don't sell yourself short and get a job, nay a career, that is worthy of your talent.

Bill: Sorry I hijacked your topic!

[buster]

"And minimum wage is $2500/month in Ontario which is what 50% of Peterborians (right word?) live on (or less)."

I guess I think that minimum wage for one is just not enough then, unless two work for minimum wage. Maybe enough to exist on. Even if 90% of our city lived on it, Marilyn and I would find it tough to give up the life style we have. I like our house. None of my friends or any of our neighbours live on minimum wage, and many are far richer than us. My own kids make far more than I ever did.

[buster]

"I know this will shock everyone everyone but you don't NEED a car."

However, if we did not have a vehicle, there are are number of things our family could not have done.

-for 40 years we skied , and not just locally but Ottawa and Algonquin
-we bicycled and stayed at inns in Vermont
-we hiked the white mountains in New Hampshire
- we spent over two months camping across Canada, the 4 of us
-We visited, attended funerals and weddings, of family, none of whom live anywhere near here
-we spent 2 months at the USA national parks camping in the area from Grand Canyon to Yellowstone
- we rented cars to wander around England, Wales and Scotland for 2 months, spread over 3 years
-we rented cars to wander around Newfoundland on two trips, east side and west side
-we spent 5 weeks each year after retirement near the ocean in Alabama. 25 years of this
- wandered Florida in the spring for 5 years, as well as drove in Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Georgia
- drove to small cities nearby to compete in road races
- drove to hiking trailheads all over the place.
- we visited and stayed with friends who live at least 4 hours away.
-having a car allowed me to take a better job outside the city

Anyone reading this could make a similar list, though maybe more local. Much of this makes up the best and most exciting part of our lives. My daughter still drives north in the winter and stays for a couple of nights to ski.

We could have existed without a car, but that, to me, is not living.

[buster]

According to the Examiner today, the average family income in the Peterborough area, after taxes, is just under $70,000. (Of course median would have been a better indicator.)

[Jason]

"I know this will shock everyone everyone but you don't NEED a car."

However, if we did not have a vehicle, there are are number of things our family could not have done.

I'm not saying to not have a car period. I'm saying you don't need to OWN your own.

Many of those things have alternatives to take a car. Some would be too expensive, like travelling across the country for two months without your own car. There are buses and trains, too. In Europe, people tour it using the public transportation systems then. Ours aren't as good in Canada, for sure. But people can still live, do things, and do lots of fun things without a car. You can't see it, because it's not how you did it. If we're to save this planet, we just might have to stick closer to home and take vacations in places we can get to with rentals or other forms of mass transport. Or travelling with friends who do have cars. Maybe I'm just crazy.

[Jason]

According to the Examiner today, the average family income in the Peterborough area, after taxes, is just under $70,000. (Of course median would have been a better indicator.)

I don't know where the Examiner got it's numbers but Stats Canada does keeps data on median income. The median income is $31,867 BEFORE taxes. As shown in the attached graphic from from the Housing is Fundamental report, sponsored by the Peterborough United Way, 70% of those in the Peterborough area make less than $50K/year. The report has a lot of figures but is well-designed so easy to read. it's attached, too. We do have a lot of professionals in Peterborough so that probably skews the average number. But the majority in Peterborough don't make that rate. I'm sure it's higher now than then, but probably not much higher and mainly due to minimum wage increase(s). It likely hasn't kept pace with the cost of living though especially with inflation this year.

https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/dp-pd/prof/details/page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo1=CMACA&Code1=529&Geo2=PR&Code2=35&SearchText=Peterborough&SearchType=Begins&SearchPR=01&B1=Income&TABID=1&type=0

"None of my friends or any of our neighbours live on minimum wage, and many are far richer than us."

I don't know any CEOs but I'm fairly certain they exist. Everyone of my friends in PLUG is far richer than us. What's your point?

It's also funny, that when it's pointed out that people live on far less than they do, their answer is that they're not rich. It reminds me of a story when I worked on the 2004 campaign. Jack Layton was talking about in an inheritance tax where families that inherited more than a $1 million would have to pay a surtax. I don't recall what it was but it wasn't that large. The campaign manager remarked to me that someone phoned in and thought such a tax wasn't right. "A million dollars isn't all that much," she said.

Even the top 1% will tell you that they're not rich. And they usually know people that are richer than them.

[buster]

"The median income is $31,867 BEFORE taxes."

The Examiner didn't mention median income. It mentioned family income. And not median but average.

[ssfc72]

You peaked my curiosity, Buster. I had to go and look up the difference between average and median.
The example of the difference in meaning was illustrated using the prices of houses. Very interesting and educational. :-)

https://www.thebalance.com/median-vs-average-what-the-difference-2682237

[fox]

The term, "average" is a generic term, not a specific way of calculating that "middle point". Median is one way to average, another is mode (the most frequent amount). What you are calling average is a third way, which is to take the mean. When newspapers use the term, average, they use it as a synonym for mean.

[buster]

You are quite right Mike. I miswrote with the word 'mean'. I was thinking MEDIAN. Sorry.

So average: add to a total and divide by the number of people involved

Median: list the numbers in order and select the one in the middle.

Mode: the most common.

This is the example I used with my grade nine class: Ten people live on an island. One earns $1,000,000 a year. The other nine earn $0 per year.

The average salary is $1,000,000 divided by 10 which is $100,000, which is very misleading.

The median is $0 per year, which is a good indicator of the truth.

And the mode, which is also $0 because it's the most common.

For salaries and house costs, I think median reflects the truth best.