Covid-19 common sense.

[gmiller1977]

I'm actually quite happy to see the push back that has happened with the Ontario government lately with respect to COVID-19.

I've always believed (and said) "show the data".

Closing parks without scientific basis is just wrong.

Policing people doing private business is just wrong.

This article from Macleans is an excellent read (IMHO):

https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/how-did-it-come-to-this/

[William]

This COVID thing is left-wing's wet dream.  I'm extremely disappointed that Ontario's government, who's supposed to be on the right side of things, is buying into this.  All those people clamoring for lockdown are on public payrolls.  They get paid whether they work or not.  Government's response should be targeted and measured, but they blast shotguns on wrong people.

[Jason]

This COVID thing is left-wing's wet dream.  I'm extremely disappointed that Ontario's government, who's supposed to be on the right side of things, is buying into this.  All those people clamoring for lockdown are on public payrolls.  They get paid whether they work or not.  Government's response should be targeted and measured, but they blast shotguns on wrong people.

Perhaps we could avoid such incendiary ad-hominem attacks.

[buster]

William wrote "left-wing's wet dream"

Personally at my age, I don't care if its a left-wing's wet dream or a right-wing's wet dream. I would wake up with a smile on my face in either case. And that would be a pleasant way to greet the new day.

[Jason]

Nicely done, Buster. Who wouldn't want to wake up from such a dream even if it means the sheets need washing. But honestly, I'm left-wing and I don't get any wet dreams from these lockdowns, sadly. I do wake up in a cold sweat sometimes but I think that's probably unrelated.

[fox]

I'm not as left-wing as Jason, but I am left-of-center, and if my attitude about Covid lockdowns, vaccines, etc. was used to classify my political place on the spectrum, then I am left-wing. I take no pleasure in lockdowns; this is no "left-wing wet dream" for me. I feel badly for local businesses that are suffering during these lockdowns. I feel very badly for the tourist industry. But this Covid is serious stuff, and I think we need to do what we can to stop the spread. I think we could have a more open policy if all people took this seriously, but they clearly don't, as evidenced by the weekly demonstrations in Peterborough, and the Fleming party in a residence that killed a 30 year old student who didn't even attend. Because of things like these, we need rules, including lockdowns when cases shoot through the roof. And we need enforcement of the rules.

[Jason]

I was going to say more but Buster Fox said it all. So I'll just say ditto.

[gmiller1977]

Canadians still have a place to express their opinions..... protest or not.

The good news is that the vaccinations are going WAY up, so, we should be out of this soon.

[Jason]

I was on the list for the Costco pharmacy from three weeks ago when it first opened up for 50+ Ontarians but I hadn't heard anything back. One of my friends was successful in booking an appointment through the Ontario website so I thought I'd give it a shot for the first time today. Earlier in the day, I couldn't find any dates. I planned to try again after midnight but for fun, I decided to check again early evening and I struck gold! There was one appointment available for tomorrow at 11:10 am! That friend I mentioned booked his appointment three days ago and it's for the 23rd. Of course, I lorded it over him.

I know you guys all have your shots but I'm still pretty thrilled. My wife has a higher risk level but she doesn't go out. Still, I risked passing it onto her. So in a way, it's like she's being vaccinated, too.

[gmiller1977]

I know you guys all have your shots but I'm still pretty thrilled. My wife has a higher risk level but she doesn't go out. Still, I risked passing it onto her. So in a way, it's like she's being vaccinated, too.

We have some higher risk individuals in our family as well; members who had bone marrow transplants due to cancer, radition for cancer, etc, pretty horrible stuff really. 

Data shows that being fully vaccinated against COVID doesn't prevent you from sharing it with someone, regardless of their vaccination status.

[Jason]

Data shows that being fully vaccinated against COVID doesn't prevent you from sharing it with someone, regardless of their vaccination status.

I don't think we have hard data either way that indicates that. But if you have it, I'd be interested in seeing it. In absence of the data, experts are telling people to keep up with the precautions in case that's true, at least until enough are vaccinated that the virus no longer circulates.

Regardless, the point of developing a vaccine wasn't to prevent you from getting COVID-19, although they're pretty good at that, it was to prevent you from getting severely sick so that you don't end up being hospitalized, in the ICU or the morgue.

[gmiller1977]

I agree there is no concrete evidence.  Every week a new article comes out claiming the opposite of a statement from another publication the week before LOL

I do know someone who was vaccinated (fully), and then became reinfected (via positive PCR test) when their daughter contracted SARS-COV-2.

[Jason]

I agree there is no concrete evidence.  Every week a new article comes out claiming the opposite of a statement from another publication the week before LOL

Very often it's because the media doesn't know how to gauge the credibility of the sources or what the consensus is on a given subject. They often want to give equal coverage to both sides when there are lots of issues where the evidence on one side greatly outweighs the evidence on the other (e.g. is climate change human-caused). So they may quote an expert one week and a different expert next week. One may be of the consensus opinion, the other not.

I do know someone who was vaccinated (fully), and then became reinfected (via positive PCR test) when their daughter contracted SARS-COV-2.

So this is a person who was fully vaccinated after having previously had COVID-19 and then was infected again? I thought what you meant before was that someone who isn't infected with COVID-19 could pass it on. There have been supposed cases where someone already infected became infected again. But that seems really unlikely that if someone has already been fully vaccinated for it a re-infection, not that it couldn't happen. But in the articles, I've seen it mentioned it was only a handful of cases. It's more likely that the PCR test they received was a false positive, especially if it was PCR-RT test. There's also a PCR antibody test that can indicate a past infection. The PCR-RT test can also pick up a past infection. Testimonials are just that, testimonials. They need to be investigated to know what exactly happened. We shouldn't really draw conclusions from them.

[gmiller1977]

Correct.

They had SARS-COV-2, tested via PCR, then got the vaccination (full schedule with Moderna and had 2 weeks post vaccination) and then got infected again with SARS-COV-2.  Seniors at this residence are tested weekly; one of the few in the province that appear to have a "clue" on how to handle and protect a vulnerable aging population.

What I'm taking from all of this is:

Some people will contract SARS-COV-2 and they may or may not be symptomatic
Some people end up with COVID-19
Some peeople end up being reinfected again
Some people will be fully vaccinated and will be reinfected again.
Some people will be fully vaccinated and will transmit SARS-COV-2.
Some people will be fully vaccinated, and become reinfected with SARS-COV-2

We generally have no idea what is going on and our elected officials are floundering and are more worried with infighting.

Thank goodness this isn't an life ending asteroid hurtling at the planet, because we'd be screwed. LOL

[Jason]

Two weeks after the shot may not have been enough time to build up to full immunity. But you can certainly be vaccinated and still get it anyway. It's not perfect. Although 95% and two shots, and possibly 65% after one shot is pretty good in the vaccination world.

But if you do get it still, you're most likely to not end up with severe symptoms (requiring hospitalization). In the trials among at least Phizer and Moderna vaccines, not a single person who contracted the disease after being vaccinated ended up in the hospital (which means virtually no chance of death) while others in the control group did. Not ending up in the hospital is the important thing because the system isn't overrun and lives are saved. The flu vaccine each year often only has 65% effectiveness, sometimes as low as 50%. But it's still very helpful because it prevents hospitalizations and death. I know you're not anti-vaccine, I'm just pointing, maybe to others who read this that preventing COVID-19 infection isn't the most important thing though it is still important.

As for whether you can get it again unless the person you know had another PCR test to confirm, it's very possible they actually didn't have it, especially if it was a PCR-RT test which is different from a regular PCR test. The former is designed to pick up even the faintest hint of the virus which might have indicated positive even if the person was infected before.

I think we know a lot but there are things we don't know certainly. And the infighting annoys me, too. Figure it out amongst yourself, don't hash it out in public. The top two levels of government are to blame here and in other provinces. But there's also stuff we couldn't have foreseen like the interruptions in supply, except that we should have our own production capacity. I bet there were health officials telling politicians that we were due for another pandemic after SARS and they needed to get ready.